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Slart, when the time comes that our elders THINK that they are independent but are not, it's time to kindly say "mom, I can't do this anymore".

Hardest words I ever said and my mom took great umbrage. She too apparently thought I owed her, to come do her bidding, respond to emergencies, no matter what.

I said "no". "I'll lose my job; I will skid out (again) on your icy hill; Brother will have a heart attack trying to get here when you call and say you are ill. Just no more mom. You need to be someplace else".

I don't think it's any kindness to prop up out elders in their false "independence". I think aging in place is lovely until it impinges upon everyone ELSE'S quality of life.

Your mom is STEALING your prime earning years from you. You seem to think that others are going to look out for your interests. They will not. You really need to look out for yourself, starting now.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
Thanks so much for sharing your situation. I’ve learned, it’s one thing in the abstract, quite another to get it out there in direct words between mom & daughter, and, I am flailing. I realize, in the wk. to 10 days since i’ve sought help, here, I have mega info to assimilate. And, others, familiar with my mom’s type of personality, have suggested things. I have learned much from many suggestions and information that resonates as true or, true-enough to investigate.

My sibs, I think, won’t likely get it, because I think they don’t want to. Because if I walk away, they may have to actually do something. They live far away, they are enjoying prosperity and having fun, AND, they have dealt with the mom dilemma all of their lives, too, and have run away from it. They’re not stupid. But I was.

I have been trying to get space from mom while I decide, first, (big deal for me to put me before her), what do I want, stay or go? What I really want is to go, tho it’s not that simple because I care about her no matter how selfish she is. She’s very dependent.

Just this minute mom snagged me as I walked thru and demanded answers to this and that. I said that I need space while I hear what my online support group is contributing. The answers I heard from her were all kinds of manipulations, confabulations, and attempts to get an immediate answer.
I understand wanting answers, but I am not finished finding one. I repeated that I hadn’t yet decided If I would stay, and she looked surprised.
Shes’s upset with me for departing from the way I usually jump to her demands/requests. Won’t do it any longer. If I am ever to get healthy, it’s truly now or never. I don’t know if I can expect her to learn about that. If she does’t, I am aware she may blame me till the end for “walking out on her”, never, ever, seeing the real truth.
So, did that happen for you? How did it play out?
I am floundering in mom’s anger at me right now for not kow-towing. I HAVE to get through this! I don’t want to knock under. Any insights?
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Slart, I understand that you are not a materialist. But there is no law that says you have to be either a materialist OR a kind caring person. What I mean is that you can be kind AND make a decent living.

And I understand that you are working HARD. And you should be being paid for it!
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Slartabart Jun 2019
I understand, Barb, thanks.
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Your most recent posts make it sound as though your mom has developed some cognitive decline. Has she been evaluated for that? Is the financial POA that your stepbrother holds one that can be used in case of incapacity?

If mom doesnt understand, then it's your stepbrother you need to be talking to about the financial arrangements
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Slartabart Jun 2019
Barb, in the one looong week since I first posted, amidst all of the often well-intended suggestions that she may be narcissistic, I am wondering if it is signs of increasing dementia. There are definite indicators of mild dementia—especially expressive aphasia. She has word-finding problems and it has worsened since I got here. Of course, that wouldn’t explain her behavior prior to her decline. So, I suspect both are going on.

I have taken notes on your good questions and will find out the answers. My sister, a doctor, holds the medical POA, if that answers anything. Frankly, since she visits only bi-annually, I don’t think she knows more than I do about mom’s current status/decline. How could she? I’m a little miffed she hasn’t participated more in mom’s care.

I intend to to reply to your other notes below.
thanks for your great comments.
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Who is the successor trustee of the Living Trust? Does mom understand that this money can still be used for her care?

I think you are confusing caring for your mom with providing hands on care. You can arrange for her to have the right level of care at home through an agency, paid for by LTC insurance.

There is absolutely NO reason that you should mortgage your future to remain her unpaid servant. This is something that MIGHT be acceptable if you were independently wealth or had a guaranteed source of income, like a substantial pension that you were able to live off of. But you don't.

You're poor. You are going to become a burden on the welfare rolls in your old age so that your wealthy relatives can inherit more wealth. How does that make ANY sense?

There is also lots of grey space in between being a materialist who likes jewels and valuing human relationships and kindness. You can earn a living AND care about others.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
You have been so good to persist in providing helpful questions and info. I value questions and ideas that help me decide how to proceed.

I don’t know the term “successor trustee”. Mom’s step son is called trustee over the living trust. I will ask him. Mom likes to think she is savvy about this. No, she told me yesterday that she can’t touch that money, that the trust is “not hers”, but is for all surviving kids. She very likely doesn’t know, and most likely doesn’t wish to touch it out of respect to her husband. She has never volunteered information to me. It caused me to feel it was private between her and her 2 executors. So, I left it alone. Thought she wanted privacy. But now I need to know.

I have always wondered why my doc sister, who is an astute business woman, never came to my aid, voluntarily. We haven’t been close, and her world-#travels have kept her busy.

I believe you’re right that I am confusing caring for mom with providing hands-on care. I never thought of the distinction, only that I needed to be here to help her stay in her accessible home, with all of her goodies, where she wants to be. (In-home costs are exhorbitant. She would not stay if she had to pay 100k/yr.—she’d be too afraid she’d run out of money.
Her home health insurance only pays for $100/day, with a minimum stay, so that means she might get 3 hrs. ($75.) in the a.m., then pay for the rest, except the $25, for the rest of her daily needs. She’s afraid to be alone at night in case she needs help. Clearly, i’m learning to spell out the facts. AL is cheaper. Still, hard to say what she’d choose, if forced. I want to give her an option. (Again, what SHE wants?). Isn’t that what this is about in many ways?

I don’t want to be a burden on taxpayers. That’s partly why I’m standing up. I am Working! There is value to what I do, and I want to contribute. Mom seems to feel I owe it to her, somehow. Ya know, I’m done with the “why”. I just don’t care about that, anymore.

i’m not Sure about your last paragraph, thinking you may have misunderstood. I’M not the materialist. Mom is. I don’t care much about that except for a little comfort. Mom is the one who needs excessive materials in order to be happy. She always has.

thanksfor sticking with me. K
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Spart, You say " yes, Mom. This is all about money. If I weren't here, I'd be working, saving money and preparing for MY OWN old age. What part of that don't you understand?"

Manipulators who want something for nothing use that "Oh, so it's all about money" line. Get wise to her selfishness, my dear. She's using you.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
I think if I understood better about manipulators I wouldn’t be where I am today. That’s why it’s important to me to hear your opinions. I think mom is a skilled manipulator. I KNOW she is. I’ve witnessed it. That ‘s the reason I hesitate to label her with the word “narcissist”, as many good people here have labeled her. Many, for sure, without a PhD, tho, many of their comments helped me to stand up to mom. Not sure a diagnosis is necessary, except what came out of that—I need to look out for myself, and, I have failed to do that with my mom. The main thing is, I have benefitted in just one week from comments from people like you. You have no idea—we’ll, maybe you do have. A light in the dark from a voice that is non-judgmental and purely supportive is a blessing, indeed.
thanks, Barb.
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And sounds like Your mom has the money. If you do decide to ask for compensation, I would ask for the going rate. Don't cut yourself short. People treat us the way we let them. Treat yourself with respect and expect to be treated with respect by asking for the going rate. Anyhow, with long term care insurance, her money will last longer and can pay you the going rate. If she will not give you that much respect, I'd leave.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
I always like reading your notes. I appreciate them very, very much. I need to slow down and think. I’ve had a lot of info in just one week since I first posted. New ideas have been introduced. Without your replies, I would never have stood up to mom and likely would have done what I always do, lay down and play dead, or flee. I needed to hear from convincing folks that I must stand up to her. The narcissism is a new idea to me, and I have researched it. I have, or intend to, follow up on every good bit of advice i’ve received. In the end, I will decide what to do with a clearer. Mind and heart, thanks to many of you. You were exactly what I needed at this time and I couldn’t be more grateful, even for kicks in the butt; NOT, for words of disparagement., or assumptions, or those who wanted to dig beyond the scope of the question/issues.

thanks so much.
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Star,
Maybe some of the payment in exchange for services could come in the form of gas for your car, registration, insurance, health insurance supplemental, and
a therapist. Nearing or at burnout, I recommend the support of a therapist to get you through this rough spot. It does not mean you are crazy. Or a caregiver support group to start.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
I agree that I need a therapist as soon as I can manage that. It seems in this one week of wonderful support, I am beginning to bring up too many other issues best left to a therapist. Lots of info, mostly helpful, not all.
thank you so much.
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Startbart - WAIT!!! DON'T agree to any figure of compensation just yet. Let's hear from others how to do this properly to protect you and your mom.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
Ok. I won’t. Yesterday I decided after all this time, mom can just wait for that. There’s no real rush, as she mentioned waiting a month or two for sis to visit, see her lawyer, and maybe set up some fund. And I need time to decide if I can stay. Mom wants me to stay. She denies she asked me to leave. I’m getting pretty worn out emotionally. She DID ask me to leave, in anger. She spent some time regretting that. She has it good, and she knows it. She wants this last week to go away, just disappear, without taking responsibility. This can’t happen. I want to do the right thing. I still love my mother when all is said and done.
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You could start your own agency. Check into the requirements and check how much it would cost to get up and running.

Then you could hire someone to help mom on her LTC and you get some relief from all the caregiving. And get paid for the work you do. She knows you should be getting paid or she would not have asked her insurance.

You have received some really great advice about your rights as to staying there until you get on your feet.

Take some time to calm down and really search your heart to make sure that you don't have regrets. We can love and help our narcissistic parents, we just have to always know what we are dealing with. Keep our boundaries and always have a way to cope with the frustration and hurt they inflict. It will always be a sore spot, it's mom and/or dad, something in us tells us that they should love us just as we are, just as we loved them until they destroyed our hearts and opened our eyes. But it won't happen and learning to be all good with the reality takes some work. Especially when you have believed what they instilled in us.

Can you go for a few hours and throw rocks or kick cans or something to get some of the angry energy out of you? My personal fave is a nerf bat and a pillow. Works great for me to talk myself through my hurt, I get angry when I am hurt, could not be vulnerable in my youth or you got devoured, still working on not going right to anger when I am hurt. Until then the pillow gets all the anger I refuse to dump on another human being.

Take the time you need to figure this situation out. Hopefully you can find a solution that gives you your hearts desires, whatever they be.

Hugs!
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Slartabart Jun 2019
You have been so kind and good to me during this time. I look for your note and it’s always there. That means so much right now. A voice of reason, with good ideas. And perspective. You sound very knowlegable about narcissism and I pay close attention to what you say about that. Recall, I only recently slapped this label on mom and I could be wrong, but what else to call it? I used to think she just had too much pride and focus on appearances and that she had done without the grand riches she always desired for so long while married to my dad. I always excused her behavior somehow. But, I blamed myself for not being good enough. I deferred to her, because she was so insistant about telling us all what to do, never mind that we were busy trying to be our own selves. And, she didn’t always have the best advice. I really don’t like to blame—as an adult, i’m responsible for my own choices, good or bad. But if you are an adult functioning with a skewed mind-set due largely to neglectful and ignorant parenting that failed to prepare you with useful skills in dealing with this world, then you want to ask “why”? But that’s not a real useful question at this point, tho I asked it over and over for 30 yrs. I was determined to figure out as much as I could, because I knew I had to, or never thrive. But, I was also committed to never losing my core of compassion and decency and love. That was all I really had that was mine and that i’ve valued.

So, living with mom these two yrs. has been eye-opening. And now, with your help and the help of all of these good people who care enough to write me, i’m finding some perspective, lots of useful information, and a kind of permission to let go a little. I need to. It’s truly killing me. I don’t think I would ever abandon my mother. But this sure is a blatant notice to set much needed boundaries at last. I’ve tried before.

I loved the the throwing rocks idea. Maybe similar, a few days ago I drove south 30 miles to a small park on Lake Michigan. Beautiful, and no one there. So, I shouted at mom for a little while, then strolled in the sand on the beach. The surf sound was loud and it helped. Ha! (I confess I thought maybe I could live in a campsite all summer). Escape!! But, no.

I will not leave here till I feel I can. My mom is not a cruel person. I’ve not said “no” to her much. When I do, she gets irate. She’s even had a tantrum or two. But that’s because sh’s so used to getting everything she wants, HER way, control freak and spoiled, as she is.

we talked a bit yesterday. Hate to admit, but she insisted, even after I told her I wouldn’t talk till I was ready, because I was so angry with her. But we did some. Then she criticized me for sounding hateful. I repeated that I told her we should wait and have a rational discussion when my anger simmered down.
she managed to reduce the issues down to this: “so, it’s all about money”, she accused (she didn’t ask it as a question). I said, no, mom, but have you ever once spoken to me about my future or what’s going to happen to me whenyou’re gone? A few more things, then I ended it. I don’t like to problem-solve in anger.
i guess it’s some progress. I could tell she was reconsidering a bit after some time to herself. I know she’s scared and I want to comfort her, but I think, at long last, it’s time for her to face the consequences of her actions. It’s the only way, for someone like her. She’s not in any danger, she can get breakfast and lunch for herself, as I have it ready. I make dinner. I don’t want her company right now. I need to distinguish between her “wants” and her “needs”, and set limits. These are the first steps. I think we might be over the crisis. Not sure. One day at a time. She hasn’t said yet that she wants me to stay, and I don’t know if I should/can. I think a holding pattern and negotiating is a good plan.

Thanks so so very much for your great support. I value it so much.
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It sounds like your mom has a long-term care insurance policy. It is very likely that she has paid a lot of money over the years into this policy and it is likely a use it or loose it type of thing. In my experience I have seen more people wait too long to activate these policies than I have see people use them all up. I would encourage you and her to activate the policy, get the help she has already paid for and in this way free yourself up to work outside of the home for your own well being. Not wanting to waste this benefit she has already paid for may be the best way to frame it to your mom as it may appeal to her frugal nature. Getting yourself into a work situation where you can have healthy boundaries and feel appreciated for your work is also hugely important.

If the situation is allowing you to sleep adequately at night and her night needs are not excessive I would still push to have her give you at least the $500 a month for nighttime coverage. Managing and coordinating her aides and healthcare is still a big and important job crucial to helping her with her goal of staying in her home. If you get sick or hurt, $100 a day is not even close to enough for covering all the work you are providing.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
I had no clue that if one was current on payments, she could still lose the benefits? Contacting that carrier is on my list. Thanks for the heads-up on that. I will frame it to her as you suggest. I don’t see how she can function right now without me and I won’t abandon her, even tho she asked me to leave. We have to change the dynamics of the situation for sure, and I do think getting caregivers in here is a good idea, at least enough to use her $100/day home health benefit, which won’t provide much caregiver time.

You have given helpful ideas. Thanks so much. I keep saying to myself: others have done this, and I can do it,too. Step by step. Your support has helped me to ward off despair and panic. I now have a resource with this wonderful website, so, i’m Not alone! Not sure what will happen, yet, but at least I don’t feel so confused and strangled! XO
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Star,
Just gave you a shortened nickname! You have skills. You can work and live lots of places.

Last year, Mom started giving you $500 per month, if I have that correct.

Is the "Mom has kicked me out" at all negotiable?
Can you continue part-time and get a job, saving for a place?
I agree with others, you will do better not taking care of your mother 24/7.

And I feel you need to be living where you were happier. If that led to not visiting your Mom, would you be okay with that?

Will read again your other thread/question. In the meantime, taking deep breaths and trying not to panic as you consider your options.

If you two had a fight, she may calm down. Leaving abruptly is not right, for her, and especially for you. Can you put the topic of pay on the back burner while you plan your escape?

Burnout does require immediate help for you, no amount of money will cure it.
A respite (time away) will help.
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Countrymouse Jun 2019
It's already shortened. I think the full name is Slartabartfast, presumably after the planet architect in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Or else it's an amazing coincidence! :)
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Countrymouse Jun 2019
Has it, though? I can't tell if the kicking out has happened or not.
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I wonder if that generation has this issue because in their day there were relatives that cared for the elderly in their family and it was just expected. But that was in the days of families all living in the same town and people having an extra room for grandma. There was a farm and food. There was not the life expectancy and not the medical care that sustained life with great physical disabilities. They just do not "get it" that this is not financially the same anymore.
You can not destroy your life for her care. No one ever thinks that is a good idea. The fact that you ask shows your heart and how emotions are wrapped in this.
I agree, anyone else doing this would get money. There is nowhere written a child must care for their parent for free or not be able to make their own income because of parental expectations. It seems she values her money more than her thankfulness to you.
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I understand you frustration but struggle wrapping my arms around your wanting to be paid by your mother for caring for your mother . Is there a way that some of her obey that she has invested can be released to cover expenses as you care for her ? My mother lives with me and we released some of her money and opened a joint account and we use that money to do different things . It gives my mother some independence and she feels like she is contributing .
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Slartabart Jun 2019
Sorry you have trouble understanding. If I had a home, I would have brought my mom there. I brought my dad into my home a number of yrs. ago. I took care of my sister as she began dying, then had to put her in respite care. We had been best friends our entire lives and I miss my bud.

Mom asked me me to come here, and I did. I didn’t want this, but I wanted my mom to be cared for, because I love her and want her to be happy.

I am giving up the last years of my earning life. I don’t always feel ok, but I don’t tell mom that. If she hadn’t asked me to live with her, I would be earning money, because I need to. I have no one to care for me when I get sick. I will likely never marry again. I’m alone and afraid, but I know I did the right thing in coming to help my mom. If I had resources, I would never think of charging mom. Since I don’t, I need pay, as I can’t earn a living elsewhere right now, because i’m giving everything to mom. If I don’t earn something, I won’t have anything and will regret I sacrificed so much.

not sure yet about releasing funds. The money is in a living trust and she feels it should stay there to honor her deceased husbands wishes. Thanks for your thoughts.
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If you don’t value yourself why should a materialistic narcissist?
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Slartabart Jun 2019
Good point. But, I did value myself. Just in ways mom didn’t value. I don’t value materialism and acquiring jewels. I value helping others and living a life that is true to my convictions. But, your point is heard. I stopped talking to mom about my values, because she just didn’t get it.
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Note, loving people are not narcissistic, materialistic, do not use people and you are being used. Find a job and tell her to use her good money to pay for her care. Otherwise, you are enabling her and making a martyr of yourself. Take care of you for no one else will or is.

Also, your mother should be told that she can't take her money with her. She will either part with it now in spending it on her care or part with it after she dies when someone else will get it. Wow, how materialistic!
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Slartabart Jun 2019
I appreciate your reply. I don’t know what I would have done without the ideas and support from so many people on this site.

Yes, I believe i’m being used, but I don’t want to be a martyr. I think some situations require patience, and lots of clarification.

Mom and I talked earlier. She doesn’t see/admit that she’s been using me. I asked her, “what about doing the right thing for your loved one?” She didn’t have an answer. She’s getting too old. Our conversation knocked some stuff out of her. In no way do I want her
to “atone” at this point. She was a very good mom in many ways and I am grateful for that. She will never see things that don’t make sense to her or don’t register.
Interesting to see how she maneuvered around tricky questions and what I thought were facts. I could be wrong. Her memories and mine vastly differ in terms of what has been said and misunderstood.. I don’t want to harbor resentments. I just want to resolve problems and move on. So, that’s how we’ll proceed.

i would never have been able to have had this fairly productive conversation with mom today, had it not been for the many caring and informative and supportive posts from you all on this forum. I am so grateful.
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I just noticed you are in michigan. So am I but lower Michigan. All the agencies charge between $21 and $23 an hour including overnight. It would cost between $11,000 and $12,000 a month for 24/7 in home care not including cleaning house, laundry, shopping, cooking, appointments, Bill paying, maintenance and more! I did it all. The last 5 weeks of my mom's life were in a reminiscence facility that was $5000 a month. I was near collapse after 15 years caring for two parents. I am still not recovered and have no idea what I am going to do or where I'll go. In my case it just snow balled...the load continues to increase after You are already burnt out and then you're so financially drained you can't get out. You must protect yourself and your future! Also the senior coalition can help give you resources. And if you have a background in medical field you could get a caregiving job with an agency pronto. They were desperate for helpers. At the very least get a caregiver agreement in place that after she dies you will be compensated from the estate other than that you'll be burnt out, broke and have siblings want you out of her house so they can cash in.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
Thanks for sending Michigan info! I was hoping for that, and you provided good ideas, as well. I took notes on all you shared.

I’m so sorry to hear of your huge devotion to your parents and that now, you are not recovering well. You CAN, and you will! Believe it! I have a little trouble with some advice to those of us who are trying to struggle out of despair and brokeness. Sometimes, it’s timing, but most times, it’s making a huge leap out of confusion, regret, anger, resentment, or more. Sometimes, we have to force ourselves to put one small foot forward into something we CAN do. I know this.

You were very kind to help me. I am so appreciative. These small kindnesses add up in the life of one who has few to make a big difference. Pass it on! Thanks.
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Dear Slartabart, don't feel lonely.. I am 61 and have spent 3 years doing what you have done. I also got burnt out. I finally decided my name was not "Cinderella" I was not her servant and I moved her to my sisters in Texas. I am still at the house cleaning out 60 plus years of junk so I can sell the property. I can live with that because I know there is an end to it. My siblings criticize me all of the time for living here and not getting it sold. (they want the money) My Mother never paid me a dime to help her so I did drive an hour and a half one way for work every day so I could keep my job when I am done. My schedule fluctuates so I was able to do it all. I do not recommend this. I am wore out and I still have my daughters and grandkids to help. Please realize your sibling will never be there for you and your Mother will not part with her money. It is all about her. Cinderella doesn't get paid! Look in a mirror and see the age on your face and deal with her.
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DiannaSunnier18 Jun 2019
But what about your mother? She has raised you? Then you leave her all alone with all the expenses?!!
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I am so sorry to hear about this awful situation. Here are my comments. First of all, she may be mentally sharp but she has many physical problems which will get worse. Second, the fact that you are going down indicates YOU are in serious danger - you will get more destroyed on a daily basis and then what. Do you think anyone will step in and help you? I doubt it very much. YOU must make up your mind that your mother is NOT who/what she once was. You have done more than your share compared to many others and YOU now must take appropriate action to save yourself. Gather all the facts you can about finances and sit her down. Then point blank tell her - with no guilt - just firmness on your part that she has two choices to make. One, she goes into a facility to be cared for because YOU can no longer do this at YOUR expense - and you should not and cannot continue. Or, she can have 24/7 health care in HER home, not your home. You cannot and will not continue. In the meantime, speak to an eldercare attorney and the Office on Aging what they suggest since she does have the money invested. And, do you have a Power of Attorney - get it if you can. No matter what you do, you must stop taking care of her and being destroyed more each day - protect yourself.
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rovana Jun 2019
Riley, is it always a good idea to become a POA? Especially for a narcissist?
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Take her to visit assisted living facility in the area and have her find out the true cost of care. Also get bids for a live in caregiver. Go from there when discussing your monthly payment from her, do not deduct for room and board since these are included in addition to compensation for a live in caregiver.Make sure to negotiate time off (at least 1 full day a week) and vacation time off.Put it in writing and have it notarized (banks will usually do this free of charge if you have an account) to avoid issues with siblings. Don't forget you will need to pay taxes on this money. Make siblings aware THEY will have to deal with mom on your day off. If they refuse to help check with senior services center,they have access to a multitude of programs that may be able to help you with this situation. I take care of MIL (she moved in with us) and have had ZERO help from her daughters. Always some excuse or reason why. Pretty much came to terms that they will never help out but can brag about their latest extravagant vacation and travels. Setting up someone to come take care of her is a nightmare because older daughter will commit but then back out at very last minute so now no time to set up alternatives due to too short of notice. Haven't been able to get away in over 1 1/2 years.In my case it is what it is.DO NOT LET YOURSELF BE DRAWN INTO THIS TRAP. If your siblings are like my husband's sisters,they are more worried about how much they can get when mom passes, you are free help that keeps their inheritance safe and intact, and they didn't have to deal with anthing, just enjoy their lives without any of the responsibility of mom's welfare.
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AlvaDeer Jun 2019
So true. My brother has moved into assisted living, and he has two rooms and it is lovely, the care wonderful, and the help so exceptionally kind. But he needs little (gets his rooms and meals and all the perks) help. It is minimally just over 4,000 a month in So. Cal which is inexpensive compared to here in Bay Area. So her Mom should understand that. And frankly, if she has the money should move there, and pay it, and enjoy it. And leave her daughter to have a life. Only my opinion for what it is worth.
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I responded to my dad's call he needed me. Gave up my career and spent 15 years taking care of dad thru lots of health issues and mom with Alzheimer's. Mom didn't sleep. I spent the last three years without sleep. Parents didn't pay me. Sister managed to manipulate mom with Alzheimer's to get the legal docs from dad's safe because he told her he was going to leave me the house. He did a new will but original docs done 20 years before are stronger. Within 90 days of mom dying sister filed quick claim on house. I m worn out and broke and now she's harassing me that she wants money. My advice to you is to tell your mom she either pay you or leave you the house. You must have something in writing legally. If she refuses find a job and get out. Sounds like you are already burnt out and by the time your mom passe S you'll be poorer, burnt out and have no idea who you are...Then your siblings will come after be house and tell you how you lived there rent free. Show your mom this if you want.
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earlybird Jun 2019
I get upset just reading your post. I am so sorry you are going through all this. It is difficult enough caring for your loved one and then you have to deal with your sister. I do not know what is wrong with people. I do not know how you took care of your parents alone. You must be strong and very kind hearted. I would tell your sister to stop harassing you or you will call the authorities. I know that sounds cruel but it seems like the only alternative. Do not answer the phone when she calls. She is rude enough to put you through all this. You need to stick up for yourself.
I think lack of sleep is from so much stress. Join a gym and workout slowly until you reach your goal. Stress can cause lots of health issues and you need to take care of yourself. I hope things get better for you.
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You can’t reason with a person that can’t reason is rule number one!

never expect to get admiration adoration family support from your family! Albeit I have become hardened over my last nine years of caregiving!

make a loss of Social Security Retirement Rates past few years of not working verses working! Pull up mathematical calculations from SSA!

Make spreadsheets of Professional Caregiver Rates verses what you will be paid! But make the mother/family pay the employer taxes! $15 is not counting employer taxes owed, or personal self employment income taxes owed!

bob
robert.g.glover@gmail.con
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Slartabart Jun 2019
I am appreciative of your reply and comments. You’re so right about trying to reason with someone who doesn’t understand the rules/ways of reasoning. That was a very good reminder. Mom never quite understood that, but I didn’t get that until recently—she tried hard to sound as if she got it, but, she doesn’t. No wonder I was fooled.

i am learning what you said—don’t expect much from family. I guess I did. I’ve gotten words of gratitude, but...

making spreadsheets is a good idea, but mom probably wouldn’t understand it all. She’d pretend like she does, because that’s what she does, then later I find out she doesn’t get it. I think it’s better to find the bottom lines and help her to manage those.

I appreciate your support and sending your comments. Since that time we are slowly beginning to talk. It should be slow. I am learning so much from all of you helpful posters. Thanks so much, Bob.
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If mom won't pay reasonable rates, find another job.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
Thanks, i’m Working on it.
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I can SO relate. But I on the other hand feel to some extent compensated with a roof over my head, because my part-time job sure wouldn't cover a modest life-style and rent these days. But yes, it is true, your work has value and not only are you doing an exceptional job of all the roles, you are on-call 24/7. Will you inherit the home once mom passes on so that those funds will be yours to buy your own place? How is her will set up? Does she realize where her money could be going if not for you and your services? If it is invested, she needs to UNinvest some of it to compensate you or to develop some sort of equitable arrangement. The realities are so harsh and cruel. But I worry similarly to you. My mother has dementia. If we lose my dad, I don't think mom will be able to be alone for the length of my part-time work day. People to hire are in the $20 range with a minimum of 4 hours being typical. But to find a decent agency or person, that is a massive challenge I am discovering, for even one shift a week. An option will be for me to retire early...but that will have a huge impact on my income for the remainder of my own life. I think the bottom line for you is to let mom know if you weren't around, she'd be spending huge sums to be elsewhere...
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Slartabart Jun 2019
You are so sweet to reply to me and tell me your story. I hope the very best for you. I sometimes think I should feel more glrateful for what I do have. I just don’t want to be taken advantage of, and mom seems to expect service from me. I have always tried to please her and she knows that. She IS taking advantantage, for sure, I just don’t know how much!

no, I would not inherit the home and there are 7 kids who are named in a living trust. I would never try to get anything except a fair wage for what i’m doing.

yes, this is all so hard. I just don’t want to be stupid and foolish. I am providing what she wants in order to stay in her home. I’m giving up all I want in my life right now to do that for her because I love her. If I weren’t doing that, someone el.se would be because she’s not ready to be in a home. She needs time to let go. But if that means, in these last years of my working life that I will lose out to the point of being destitute, annd no one else will step in (no one will), then I need to fight for fair wages—no one else will.

thanks so much for caring.
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When I talked to somebody about getting paid, I said I should deduct room and board that I am getting and I was very quickly reminded that caregivers do not pay rent for what they get when they live with somebody they're caring for. Do NOT deduct rent from your pay. Take care of yourself beyond  everything you can think of because you will otherwise be destroyed. 

Plenty of people here are very critical and harsh and judgmental. Ignore that awfulness! They are not helping you, paying your bills and social security or doing ANYTHING for you. They would likely be the first people who would criticize you if you needed food stamps because you were ruined with what you were doing for your mother. Nothing justifies their criticisms. 

I say this extra part because you don't need to pay a debt to her or anyone else. 

You do not need her permission from before or now to take care of yourself. Unfortunately, as time goes on, fewer and fewer people care or want to help those of us who have sacrificed. My siblings were and are in their right minds and didn't mind that I sacrificed my health, sanity, relationship, life, finances and my future. 

Keep your eyes wide open and then some. 

Whether or not your mother is a complete narcissist (I don't know if it's possible to be "partly" but I worry that you are doubting your judgment of her). You have to do everything you can and take every iota of yourself and get paid and maybe in addition to payment get out, and everything else because she/they will eat you alive. 

And if by some small chance that she is not a complete narcissist, your dynamic certainly looks like it and it's very dangerous for you. Add some dementia to that and some parental arrogance and you will have no way to help yourself or get out. The stress and the things that we endure as caregivers cloud our judgments and abilities and I look back and from this perspective I looked like an idiot to not do all these different things, but I didn't even have the wherewithal to think straight, let alone take care of myself.

This next part does not apply to you because my mother was not a narcissist but I felt to include it in case it offers you some help somehow.

My mother is not a narcissist. That is a huge difference. There are definitely things she did that were not OK and plenty of communications that were not OK and the family dynamics were totally screwed against me. I love my mother so very much. I was always so loyal to her that I spent lots of money going to see her on every break I could possibly find just to help her smile more. Then I moved back in with her when she was lonely and then she got worse. I thought it was so cruel that my brother and sister didn't help her when she was lonely and started to get worse. But they are the ones now who have solid families, solid finances, solid futures and are well-respected, healthy and take international vacations, etc. It was so important to me to give to her to thank her for the times she was there for me when she didn't have to be. That's how it started, and it quickly turned and I didn't see it. Like I said, she was not a narcissist, and I've had a lot of bad times in my life that she helped me through. But she would never think that I owed her. My mother would not have wanted me to sacrifice my life if she were in her right mind. That was part of the reason I was finally able to let go. I kept telling her that she was helping me instead of telling her that she had dementia because that had been her lifelong fear. And now after everything, my family doesn't even talk to me so I've lost them too, not that they were worth much now that I look back.

Please ignore that last part if it does not help you in any way! I worry that including it might make you feel guilty or something but I included it to let you know that you are in a worse situation than I was and mine was bad enough to ruin me.
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Slartabart Jun 2019
You have sacrificed so very, very much Joanne. I can’t imagine. My problems seem small compared to what you did. I hope you had some support. I hope you have support now. I hope you’re feeling better.

Almost all of my sibs are millionaires. Mom is too, barely. I never cared much for money, I cared about helping people and that’s what I did. I never had any instruction about retirement and all that, so I didn’t learn how. I never had ANY instruction from either parent, except incidentally, as to how to be a wife.
So, that’s what I felt I had to do, and of course, that failed (1970’s). Well, I got myself into college and paid for the student loans till I was 55 yrs. old. But I made ba,d choices and never earned all that much compared with others. I just had no guidance. How do people who make big bucks get so far? They have mentors and people to guide them. Well, that’s over.

If mom had caregivers here, she’d pay wY too much, and they wouldn’t do near the things I am willing to do for her. Because i’m Here already, I want fair compensation. If she couldn’t do that, it would be a different story.

Thank ng you for caring enough to send your comments, and to share your story. I’m so sad to know you are now estranged from your remaining family. I hope you hang in there, have some good friends, and make a good life without them. Again, thanks
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Startabart - your mother grudgingly offered to pay you $500/month for 24/7 caregiving? what a miserable miser she is. She is exploiting you and you are allowing her to do it. So, stop it. The power to change is in your hand.

Tell her a part time job at Walmart or McDonald's would pay more than $500/m. And you only have to work 2 hours/ day to earn that much money. Sheesh!

Do you have another place to live? If you can't afford your own apartment, then rent a room for cheap. Get a job and tell your mother to find someone else to be her slave.

Edit to add: In fact, with your experience, you may be able to find a job as a caregiver through an agency or directly with a family that needs help for their elder. Then you can earn some real money.

Please take the first step to change your situation. NOW.
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I am concerned about something you stated right off. That you are on Medicare without any supplements. Are you aware that Medicare requires you to pick up a part D plan to cover drugs or there will be a penalty that you will have to pay when you do get one? This is the case even if you are not taking any medications. Often there are Medicare Advantage plans at little to no cost that include the drug coverage and help out with any of your other medical expenses. I really encourage you to look into this since you certainly don't need additional stress. I'm in NY and we have people through the Office for Aging who help people with this. If you don't have one nearby you could call Medicare and ask them to refer you to a SHIP office near you.

As to your situation with your mother, you might find some assistance in this regard also through the Office for Aging. If your Mom isn't willing to pay you something reasonable for all your services possibly with your experience you could pick up an outside job and that would force her to have to hire someone for the time you are away. That would at least show her how much it really would cost if she were to have to pay for all your services. As her child I'm sure you are willing to, as you have been doing, work for much less than the going rate. But this is just a suggestion to help wake her up to your value and it would get you out of the house and get you around other people as well.
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I am in a very similar situation. When my mom had a heart attack she needed care 24/7. She could barely stand and she does care for my brother who is mentally handicapped. I was the only family member that was willing to move into the home , her bonus room, and provide that care. She agreed to compensate me as I made the necessary changes. Since she agreed to compensate me , I was able to quit my job and begin the needed renovations to my home so that I could put it on the market. So I began all the renovations to my home and put everything on a credit card because I was going to sell my home and pay them all off. Well, as she began to get her strength back, she decided to go back on her word, She said that that was her money and it’s for her old age (she is going on 94) and thought I was being greedy, So she decided not compensate me, I ended up having to move back into my home in the middle of a major renovation and I had to get my job back.

I have been back in my house for two months now. She is getting tired because now she’s doing all the cooking and cleaning up after meals, doctors appointments, medications, paying her bills and all the daily stuff on her own again. She sees the need for a housekeeper or assistant for about four hours a day Monday through Friday. She has yet found anyone to come. She finds something wrong with all of them and tells the agency why that person will not work out. She is going to end up paying a helper more than what she was going to compensate me for. Anyway, I’m just telling you this so you know that you’re not the only one in a hard situation.

You have received wonderful advice on this forum. A lot of your stress will go away once you move out and begin working again. Then you can be her daughter again and just check on her during the week or weekend and assist when you can. That is what I am doing right now. Yes I worry about her but she won’t make the necessary changes needed to keep me there, I know it’s very hard for her to do so.

Please keep us posted! 😊
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Tell mom to just put a few hundred thousand in a trust fund for you.
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rovana May 2019
What if Mom needs Medicaid?  How much money are we talking about here? Dynastically wealth, one thing, but maybe not the case.
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In all honesty I'm not a caregiver right now, but have been in the past. I feel for you and your situation. I read these and share some of them with my kids too! I've gotten some really good advice from many, and I'm grateful. My kids thought I was crazy when I told them there's a lot of children that just can't cope with the stress that's involved with caregiving. In fact having them read some of this stuff has made them understand why I don't want them to sacrifice their life for me, and to respect my wishes, and not to feel guilty because they have a life, family, and their own retirement to lookout for. I really wish parents, husband, wife's, aunt's, uncle's etc... would read this! I will hope it open their eyes like it did mine.
Honey, I don't know why your mom is treating you this way. I'm sorry, but you deserve so much more. I'd feel truly blessed to have your love and care. Unfortunately, your mom needs a wake up call, and soon. Please listen to the sound advice given to you by people who really care. God bless you, you're a beautiful person. Now start living yourself! Hugs to you!
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Slartabart May 2019
Thanks for words from your heart, I truly appreciate your thoughts, tho, not all responders feel as you do.
your kids are fortunate. I think I have los of thinking and work to do
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