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Next time she tries to manipulate you with "you don't want me" try the truth: "Correct, mom, I do not want to live with you. You have your space. I have my space. And that's how it's going to stay. We can talk about you moving to a senior community where there are people your own age." And then show her some brochures from senior communities around your area. And end your visits when she won't let moving in with you go.
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Tipo9fig Dec 2022
NYDaughterInLaw, thank you! I needed that script!
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Good for you for sticking to your guns!

It sounds like this isn't entirely about her wanting to save money. If she is sulking and angry and has an answer for everything? There's more to it for her.

She is probably lonely with your father being gone. But since she refuses to do any socializing or hire aides, she may be looking to YOU, and only you, to be her world. You're right in that if she moved in, she'd take over. She'll be the mother and you'll be the kid again. It'll be like the life she had long ago, the good old days. That would be great for her, hell for you!

One angle you could take is independence. Most people her age would love to be able to live in their own home safely. Why would she want to give that up?
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Is your Mom aware that your relationship has never been a great one. Maybe you need to remind her. "Sorry Mom, you know in your heart us living together will not work. We have never met eye to eye. I think our arrangement works well as it is and I don't really want to rock the boat. I am right next door". If she still insists then say "Mom, it won't work. Maybe its time to consider assisted living. You'll have someone to cook and clean for you. A nice room with you things. People to talk to and activities and outings. I cannot be depended on for your entertainment. I need me time."

My Mom and I had a great relationship. She would ask me to get her the thingamagig and I knew what she meant. 50 years of not living together changed that. Now 80 or so she had to stay with me a couple of weeks after a hospital visit. By the end we came to the conclusion we had lost that "just knowing what each other wanted thing". Not sure if it was her getting older or I was just not tuned in but she was ready to go home and I was ready to drive her there. Can't imagine what it would be like to take in a parent that I had never communicated completely with at all.

The next time Mom mentions it, u may have to be blunt "Sorry Mom, in my gut I know it will not work. So please...do not ask again because it will not happen. If she asks again, ignore her. My MIL was passive-aggressive. Her boys never said no, just went on their way. Which to her meant they said yes. She was on my husband from 1992 to his retirement in 2009 to move near her in Fla were she had moved in 1989 3 yrs befor FIL passed. He never said no, but he never said yes. He just let her talk. After his retirement, it got worse until she got me on the phone and I told her that it was never going to happen because I did not want to move to Fla. I had a widowed mother and a disabled nephew who lived with her, to watch over. No other siblings near by. I had 2 adult daughters and a grandson at the time. I was not leaving my family. Her response was Mom could move down with me. My Mom was 80 by then. Had her Church and friends, I would not be moving her. MIL said "well some of us have to compromise." I almost said "everyone but you" but i didn't she was 87 by then. She chose at the age of 68 to move 900 miles away from friends and the only son with children who lived close. She would not move back here after DH died. So my DH said "thats her choice and she needs to live with that". Got to love him.
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Tipo9fig Dec 2022
Hi JoAnn29, thank you for understanding. And thank you for examples of what to say. I couldn’t wait to leave my parents after college graduation because of differences in personalities (putting it mildly). I sure as heck do not want to return to that toxic space.
I understand her loneliness. I’m lonely too as a widow. But I’d rather live alone than live with someone I don’t enjoy being with.
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Tipo,

You are going to have to minimize these exchanges even further to save your sanity. If it works to repeat back to your mother the words she has just spoken to you, try that, and inform her that this is the content of every conversation with her and you can no longer engage in this loop.

She's 92, there is dementia and as it worsens, the loops will become less varied. Write down what she says and provide her with a copy, tell her that none of this sways your resolve. Then ask it she's got any other angles to try. Inform that no matter what she tries, you are resolved. And do not give her a key to your place; you may come home to find her ensconced in your refuge.

Her combativeness will get worse and you have to start shielding yourself from this abuse - that is truly what it is - and do whatever is required to spare yourself. If you talk daily, drop to every other, if weekly, drop to every two, etc. If it's multiple xs per day, you need to start blocking calls. Make yourself unavailable.

Kudos that you're keeping your living situation boundaries intact, time to work on more distancing.

She sounds like the perfect candidate for an AL with options for increased care. She could have people around her who want to hear her tales and yes, she'll tell them all that you're completely rotten so be prepared for her lies.

About all that you can do is create more distance and allow her to fail. I'd advise against bringing in help because you'd end up being the fall back when nobody shows for a shift and you'd be tasked with overseeing it all. Let her do for herself until she no ,longer can and then have her placed, hopefully, it won't be a dramatic event that precipitates her placement, but that may be what it takes.

You have done way more than your share and it's time to devote yourself to rebuilding your own life. Pls, never allow any guilt to cloud your clear resolve.

I wish you and your mom all the best.
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againx100 Dec 2022
I was thinking the same thing. You need to start being less available. If your mom won't be reasonable and move or get help then it's up to you to help her see that this is ridiculous and that you are NOT doing more. Start setting her up with paid services to give you back some of your freedom. Start going out, alone. Go for walks, the gym, movies, anything to not be around to be at her beck and call.

Good for you for having such a strong resolve to say NO to moving in. My mom lived here for 7 years. Just moved to AL with mild/moderate dementia. She pulled the same crap with me about not wanting to go to the senior center or have helpers or AL. I felt bad and did it her way. But then I drew a line in the sand and said I am NOT doing anything more. So hired a cleaning lady to take care of her stuff and the common areas. Then hired caregivers. She didn't like it but so be it. I liked it and that's what mattered. AL? Oy the negativity was big. But she's there and adjusting.

Stay strong, don't argue, don't give in. Make up a "story" as to why you can't do X or why she needs to do Y.

Good luck.
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Dont give in. You already have a little bit of a difficult relationship with your mother. Her moving in will only make it worse. You have been honest with her about why it won't work. When she brings it up, tell her you've already said no and don't want to talk about it again. Mom has to accept your boundaries. Don't let her guilt trip you with the idea you don't want her.
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Tipo9fig, welcome to the forum. So sorry for the passing of your Dad. I read your profile and it sounded so familiar with mine regarding helping one's parents.

I had also given my parents the same choices as you gave your parents, such as downsizing and moving to a retirement community.... having caregivers come in to help.... go to the senior community center, etc. Dad was all for it, my Mom no, never, nada. Mom won the debate. Thus, my parents had to live with not choosing any of those choices.

After Mom had passed, eventually Dad sold his house and moved to senior living. Oh how he loved being there, being around people of his own age group, etc. He had weekly housekeeping and weekly linen service, plus 3 meals a day in the restaurant style dining room. Some of the women residents were dressed to the 9's for dinner and you could see they were quite happy.

Here's one idea, tell Mom you have a friend who's Mom is thinking about moving to Independent Living at a senior "apartment", and that friend wants you and your Mom to tour the place and for Mom to give her pros and cons. You can set up a tour which usually includes lunch. That way Mom can see how nice these places are. My Dad was surprise at how much it looked like a hotel :)
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Next time your mother starts sulking about you not wanting her to move in, tell her this is exactly why you don't want to live with her. She would expect everything to be about her wants and needs 24/7 and your opinion would no longer matter. Point out that you have helped for over 9 years now and this is your hill to die on.
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The answer for me, would be NO. Period. It sounds like you know what your answer is too, and you also know why. Crazy is doing, what your intuition, is already telling you would be a disaster. I’m not going to write my usual book, but please know I know what I’m talking about, when it comes to having parents that insist, and demand to “have everything their way”. Mine wrote the book.

I wish you all the best dealing with the tough position aging parents can put us in, when they must have their way. Do not put yourself last, please.
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To the idea of your mother moving in, it really doesn’t matter if she has dementia or not. The solution is not to move in with you.

However mom may be correctly concerned about expenses.

Her care needs will increase. Yours may as well. Remember you are getting older right along with mom. Using moms income/assets are not the way to meet your needs. If she is subsidizing you, this can cause a delay or refusal of any future assistance from any gov assistance for her care. She has to keep her paperwork clear as to what is happening with her finances in the event such assistance is needed. Many a healthy bank balance will diminish rapidly under the staggering cost of facility health care. You have already seen how that plays out with the price of your dads memory care.
I am not suggesting that she not pay her way. I am suggesting that you have a more formal arrangement to make sure what you are doing doesn’t cause a future problem that necessitates the thing you are trying to avoid.
Another reason mom may be pushing for combining households is because she is afraid of being alone. When you say she manages her ADLs with enough time it reminded me of when my DH aunt started being afraid of taking a bath alone in the house. She was in her 80s. She would call someone to check on her in 30 min if they hadn’t heard from her. When we had Home Health come in she still took her own bath w/o help but they were nearby should she need them.

I would use moms conversations about expenses as a reminder to seek the advice of a certified elder law attorney well versed in your states Medicaid laws to make sure mom will be able to get the help she needs when the time comes.
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Tipo9fig Dec 2022
Hi, just FYI, my mother is sitting on a Rockefeller fortune. And still checks her receipt after grocery shopping and counts her change. Even with my father’s residence in memory care, it was thousands less expensive per month than the 12-hour daily home health aide he had for dementia care. My mother will be able to afford whatever living arrangements are coming in her future.
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Ask your mother why she thinks she has to save money at 92?
DO NOT move her in. DO NOT live together.
People that have always enjoyed functional and loving relationships with their parents all their lives often find those relationships become seriously damaged and even destroyed completely because they moved in an elderly parent. If you had a combative relationship with her to begin with, moving her into your home (even if you wanted to which you don't) will ruin your life.
Any love or affection you might have for her will quickly be replaced with anger and resentment.
Please, for both of your sakes, do not move her into your home.
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JoAnn29 Dec 2022
Memory care probably dwindled her savings. Then DH died. This means she is getting less in SS a month. If my DH passed, I'd be out almost 1000 a month. If a pension is involved, Mom only gets a percentage.
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't do it! These scenarios seldom have a happy ending. Stick to your guns and protect the boundaries you already have in place.
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Tipo9fig Dec 2022
I’m going to keep my home as my sanctuary— my answer remains No to my mother moving in. I hate our combative exchanges, and really that’s what I’m cringing about. Still, better that we live apart.
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Things will continue to change with your mother. Don’t discount the idea that dementia is setting in. You’re very correct in that you’ve already done plenty for both your parents and having mom move in is a bad idea. Refuse to discuss the topic any longer. Leave each and every time she raises it, only saying it’s been covered already. Endless looping conversations on it will only frustrate you both. If documents such as advance directives and POA for medical and healthcare, and her will aren’t already in place, now is the time to get that done. Don’t feel you have to justify living alone, you’re an adult who’s wise in knowing what is best for you. Mom will have an event or events that force new decisions one day, be prepared as you can for that, knowing that moving her in is not an option. I wish you peace
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Tipo9fig Dec 2022
All documents are in place… I completed all of these once my father’s dementia became more pronounced. I was a special education teacher, and so Be Prepared has been my motto. I even have copies in a folder to grab in case of emergency, with medication listing, Covid vaccinations, and all her insurance & ID cards.
Unfortunately, my mother will remain home until an accident or event. In my father’s case, it was sundowning that finally made my mother understand that he needed more care than we could give.
When my mother cannot adequately take care of herself, then she’ll need price care, either and aide or assisted living.
The issue now is twofold: coping with my mother’s hurt feelings and resulting anger& sulking; and dealing with her never ending reasoning for having her way. She was always able to wear down my father with these tactics. She does wear me out, but I will not meet her demands.
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