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My parent in their 80's (not suffering from dementia) constantly instigates fights either with myself or others. The subject of the fights usually isn't personal but eventually escalates to that point. My parent watches nothing but 24-hour news shows or network talk shows that are similar. The instigating starts by bringing up something political or some socially inflammatory piece they've just seen or heard. Or they will make something up claiming that they saw or heard for the sake of getting the fighting started. Even when they're warned in advance if we're going to a social outing or have guests not to start anything political or inflammatory and even go far as to state what things they will not try to pick a fight on, it's no use. They manage to do it. We cannot have family gatherings or friends over because the visit or events always gets turned into a soapbox/forum for my parent to get into it about politics or some socially inflammatory subject matter. At this point we don't entertain friends and family at home anymore because when my parent has a bigger audience will work double hard to instigate the fighting and yelling. Any suggestions on how to stop the instigating before it starts? I would really appreciate any advice.

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Just one thought is to tell your parent you don't agree with their viewpoints therefore there will not be any discussion with you as there is no possibility to agree. in this case and no wish to have an argument tirelessly. At their age I feel you could avoid having people over especially if it all ends in a negative situation..

They are entitled to their opinion even if as is the case with my mother and memory loss her mind is fixated on certain points and does not allow the reasoning my husband attemps at times to be considered seriously or at all.
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Agree with him at home and socialize without him.
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well they can only argue/fight when it takes someone else to engage in the discussion.  When they start something, either say "gee time flies, I have an appt I have to go to" or just say "I don't have time to discuss this" and get ready to leave.  They can only argue with themselves.  Pretty soon if its done enough where you leave when they start something, "maybe" they will get the hint.  Or you could pretend you didn't hear them and start talking about something else totally in a different direction...... wishing you luck.
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You don't say if the parent is your mother or father or if there are any siblings or family friends that s/he can visit with while you entertain at your home. If it's your home, you own it, not living in your parent's house and just running the household, then he who owns the house makes the rules. You probably even heard this as a kid, "It's my house and my rules. If you don't like it, there's the door." I'm not saying you need to state it that bluntly (maybe you do!), but it sounds as though you've made it clear on >1 occasion that it's upsetting to you for your parent to seek out arguments when there are gatherings at your home. Is this a change in behavior for them? Have they had a physical exam within the past year? Are they angry or depressed and the underlying issue is that they need professional help in dealing with their anger? I've heard that sometimes with children any attention is better than no attention at all; so negative attention would be okay since it beats being ignored. Does your parent feel included? Why does he need to cause an argument to get attention? If this is a new behavior then I'd suggest first a visit to his PCP and then to a geriatric psychiatrist or psychologist. If it's not a new behavior and you've just been tolerating it for many years until it's finally intolerable to you now, well then, it's you or you and your spouse who need to seek out some counseling. There's always an underlying reason when there's a change in behavior. Even if this behavior isn't new, it sounds as though it's escalating. Though I think a medical workup should be done first, if there aren't any physical ailments behind your parent's anger/hostility, then it's likely there is a psycho-social reason causing an escalation in this behavior. By allowing him to continue with this behavior to the point where you don't enjoy your own home anymore, it may say as much about you and your spouse as it does about your parent who is living with you. I think a therapist can role play with you such that you can begin to change the roles in the household from Adult (parent) and Child (you) to Adult and Adult with respect for each other's opinions and differing roles when when you were growing up as a child.
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Be extremely tough and tell them to stop at once or there will be repercussions. This behavior cannot be tolerated- ever. And then walk away and totally ignore them. Keep telling them off until they stop and if they don't think about placing them or keeping them out of your home. Your life is being destroyed. Don't let them get away with it.
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Imho, don't give the "performing" parent an audience (think Grey Rock). Do not engage into the convo with them.
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I have someone in my life who is the same way. I've learned to avoid any and all topics that could instigate a reaction. Best thing to do in my opinion is maybe good naturedly take guests aside and say "lets maybe keep things light topic wise tonight while parent is in close proximity. Then smile. If your parent tries to start something they will know then to just say nothing.

I feel you though. I find myself often with the person in my life start to tell them something and then think to myself "oh, better not" It's just easier that way.
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Smile, nod and change the subject. Be the bigger person.
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Grey rock is the best answer, the more you do it the easier it is.
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Burnt,
Do some online research about narcissism and going "grey rock ".
It's not easy, but has been a sanity saver for me.
Most importantly, do NOT engage them!!! Change the subject or excuse yourself.
Sounds like you already realize that you will not win any type of argument. So for your own sanity, don't bother trying.
Best of luck!
God bless!
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Merely ignore her. Whenever she makes any statements just look at her in slience.

Inform her that her drama queen theatrics is neither appreciated nor tolerated. She either straightens up or she ships out. It is harsh but in the end there will be a lot more peace in your household.

I depend upon You, Holy Spirit to help me set Godly boundaries in my relationships. I depend upon You to guide me in the proper use of these skills to nurture loving relationships while purging myself of toxic folks who only bring unnecessary drama and chaos to my life.
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disgustedtoo Aug 2020
Remember the Serenity Prayer?

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.

One former office mate, who was VERY Christian and even wanted to be a nun, had a version of this prayer that may be more applicable for us!
Here's what I found online for that one (tongue in cheek remember!):

A Prayer for the Stressed
Grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage
to change the things I cannot accept,
And the wisdom
to hide the bodies of those I had to kill today because they got on my nerves.

While trying to find the text for the second one, I actually found this one, which might be helpful to those who often feel like they have failed their LO or feel guilty when they shouldn't:

God,
grant me the serenity to stop beating myself for not doing things perfectly,
the courage to forgive myself because I am working on getting better,
and the wisdom to know that you already love me the way I am.
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Sounds similar to my mother. It does not take much to cause her to become agitated and personally attacking. If it is just me and/or a few others, we just listen and gradually leave. It is evident she just needs to vent and this is her approach. When we attempt to communicate and share our view, it seems to cause an eruption. For our situation, we just listen, and respectfully say - well, it was nice to see you, but gonna go! It has become a reality and rather than getting emotionally upset and causing division (cannot take it personally) everyone knows when it is time to say our good-byes. We have taken her out to eat for a special occasion, she complains the entire time and it continues for weeks. Had a surprise 80th birthday party and she made everyone uncomfortable. Many left and gathered at another location. It is sad but it is unfortunately what it is. Many have stopped visiting her and because I am only one that goes regularly, many visits are short. I do what she needs, and leave when she starts.
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disgustedtoo Aug 2020
It's really about all we can do... don't engage, try to divert the conversation, if one can call it that, nod and smile, ignore as best you can and if nothing works except your BP is going up, make excuses and Exit Stage Left!

You go. You look to her needs. You have done the best you can at that point. Sad that she ruined her own b'day party.

They recently have allowed outdoor visits at mom's place, but with restrictions (mask, 6' apart and no food/beverage, so as to keep the mask on.) So much for the cupcakes and ice cream I brought. Figured if we're outside and that far apart, we could at the least do that! Nope. Between her almost non-existent hearing and dementia, it was 99% a waste of time. C'est la vie!
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Those kind of people have always existed and if you think back, your parents have probably always brought up the hot topics. You actually reinforce what the topics are to avoid, meaning it is sitting right under the surface in their mind as the scab they can pick. The folks you invite over probably already know this about your parents. You have two choices - invite them or don't. If they can't avoid these topics, do your social visiting outside the home and have an enjoyable evening.

If you want to include them, then tell the guests not to engage and to find a reason to walk away if it starts. Interrupt your parents if you are within earshot. Change the subject immediately and remind them no politics.
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There isn't a way except to not have gatherings with your parents around and let them know that is the reason they're not invited.

If they live with you then have them go to someone else's house for several hours while you intertain.

When it's just them and you, remember it takes two to tango and DON'T discuss anything with them of that nature.

When they make a comment, don't let them drag you in, just say interesting or is that so or just start talking about something else.
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Don't invite your parents!
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He may be suffering depression -- consider taking him to the doctor and get him on some psychiatric meds. Difficult people usually suffer some kind of psychopathy.
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You know how fish don't get caught?...They don't take the bait.
Warn them in advance if a discussion starts to become an argument you will leave or they will be asked to leave. Then....
If it is at their house and this starts say...If we can not have a discussion (as opposed to a fight) I am going to leave. If they continue you get up and leave. No good bye, no hug or kiss good bye just leave. If they are at your house and it starts you can get their coats and hats and keys and ask them to leave. If you are out at a restaurant or other place you get up and leave. If you have friends over and this starts you can ask your friends to join you in another room and you can all get up and go to the living room, kitchen or go to the patio or deck.
I would imagine doing this once or twice will get the point across.
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I'm guessing you have a different political view is why it bothers you? Otherwise, you would probably join him!
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JoAnn29 Aug 2020
No, I lived with a person like this. He loved to argue. And he got louder and louder to get his point across. Some people enjoyed it, others stopped coming around. Many a time he went over the line. You just get tired of hearing it.
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It's fair to guess that this question isn't so much about age as political (or moral) affiliation, especially if it got much worse in late May, 2020. It needs context because bad things are happening in the name of "justice."

I rarely tolerated Fox News until they were the only ones speaking truths about endemic crime rates vs. the systemic racism angle. People are legitimately angry as they witness cities ruined on top of longstanding crime problems that get glossed over. In my case, my elderly mom takes the liberal view and I (who've actually lived among the "oppressed") have firsthand knowledge of what police are up against.

I see cases where both the Left and Right take factually wrong positions, and if family members clash on critical topics the tension won't fade. If one side is taking a logically untenable view, try to have a truly objective conversation and maybe someone can rest on the facts. If that's impossible or it's truly just a matter of opinion (not evidence) there's no easy answer.
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Be like the Victorians. Polite conversation avoids politics. Can you get them to agree on this in advance?
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Change the topic! Also get them to change to channel more often.
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Houseplant102 Aug 2020
2 neighbors do not have family nearby and 1 does. Each picks up the remote and chooses a channel, regardless of what channel it's on at the time of arrival. One puts it on CNN, one likes Fox, another MSNBC, or CBSN. Everyone wears a mask so this is kind of a conversation limiting tool.
Sort of the go-along to get- along method. They've not thrown the remote but I can tell they have differences of opinions. I have had to sort of monitor the direction or path some comments lead toward a heated discussion. I've also put the remote in the kitchen a time or two.
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I've got one of those, too... an elderly parent who watches nothing but news, which then upsets him to the max. So I set rules: his house, his rules; my house, MY rules, which means no politics or racist language.

The harder challenge, however, is in public- but COVID has taken care of that nicely enough since we no longer go out to eat or socialize and don't see that changing at any point in the near future (clouds with silver linings comes to mind).

And as others have said, just don't engage them. Change the subject. And warn guests that mom and dad are like this and ask them to please not get involved with their rants (because that's really all it is, a release for them... if they're anything like my father they have no real desire for a meaningful exchange of opposing ideas, he's just angry and has no other way to express it).
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Think about this, the political talk isn’t meant to cause arguments. They talk about it because it’s a large part of their world. When people are at a social event they mingle and speak with others there, the arguments occur because of the reactions of others. People need to learn how to express different opinions without anger and insulting each other.
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When I read your bio I felt such sadness for the life you are living. It is so hard to be around negativity like their's. You don’t ask for this piece of advice but I'm suggesting it anyway. Move them out of your home if at all possible.
But besides that you can control the direction of the conversation by just not engaging in it. Ignore them and do a treatment called "Gray Rock" you can google it and read up on it. Basically you are not adding fuel to their fire. Also, if you have company over, you have every right to set a boundary and politely tell them they are not invited. They do not have to be a part of all your gatherings. They live in your home and you call the shots.
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Agree with Daughter of 1930. Just what I was going to say.
DO NOT ENGAGE with or in these discussions. KEEP QUIET.
If there is 'no biting on that fishing pole, they may stop' as there is no incentive for them. Instigating is another word, in my opinion, for MANIPULATING. As long as that works, they will continue.
Set ground rules before you and they are at the dinner or breakfast table.
Set ground rules before anyone comes over.
When the 'they' come over, explain the ground rules to them, too.
Learn to set limits. It is your home, isn't it?
You are kind enough to allow your parents to live with you (as I understand it).
If you do still entertain (in the age of Covid), perhaps you can leave and and/or entertain elsewhere.

Its 'no use,' as you say unless you have consequences to their behavior. If there are none, why would they change. They have you wrapped around their finger. Stop allowing it. Figure out the consequences and stick to it. May feel REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE initially because it is new behavior for you. As you feel more self-empowered, it will support you to continue and stick to your guns. g
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My first suggestion was going to be not to invite them over when you have guests, but in checking your profile, I see they live with you.

Suggestions:

1) "...if we're going to a social outing", don't invite them. If it is friends, go without them. If it is an extended family shindig, let them go, you stay home OR let them stay home and you go. Either way, the reasoning is no longer a warning, it is a statement of fact. Mom/Dad, everywhere we go you start trouble with various topics, esp politics. I have enough to do, I don't want to hear it. I've tried warning, but you're not taking the hint. So you go or I go but we are NOT going together!

2) Instead of inviting others to your home, arrange to go to a neutral spot, park, restaurant, etc (once treks and outings are allowed!) or the other person's home. Explain that this is a necessity, for peace of mind and enjoyable visit and that you'll make it up to them sometime later!

3) Anytime they do this in your home, when others are not there, you can ask them to stop. If they don't, you walk away. If need be, go for a walk outside. Wear ear plugs or headphones, so you can tune them out. They get in your face and start yapping, point to the ears and say sorry, I can't hear you and I don't WANT to hear you. I'm NOT interested in the politics or the latest gadget you've seen on TV. If you need something, write me a note. If you don't need anything, then find a hobby, join a club and mingle with people like you who want to discuss this stuff. They can't fight or argue with you if you refuse to participate. As the saying goes, it takes 2 to tango...

Out of curiosity - is there a necessary reason for them to be living in your house? I see mom needs some assistance, but does it have to be in your place? Can they not afford some kind of AL? IF they can afford it and nothing you try suggested by anyone here works, then perhaps it is time to check out AL places, then sit them down with brochures and information you gathered and suggest they move. They would likely find someone who would "debate" with them... Even better would be find one that offers respite care and have them stay for 2 weeks while you go on vacation. Maybe they will not want to come back!
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Burnt, I’d like to reframe this as yet another boundaries issue. You share a house with your mother, but “we don't entertain friends and family at home anymore” because of her behavior. She does not have dementia, her behavior is deliberate, and you haven't managed talk her out of it.

You could try three boundary options. If you ask when you have company, she goes to her room immediately and stays there. If you are out when she starts up, a taxi is called and takes her home. If you try these and they fail, you let her know clearly that you don’t want to feel like this in your home. If it continues she will need to move to AL (if the house is yours), or you will need leave and she will need to find other carers (if it’s her house). If the carrot for her is that she enjoys the arguments and enjoys the feeling of control, you need to find a different carrot or else a stick.
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Harpcat Aug 2020
She lives with them
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My mom is glued to CNN,, and hates Trump ( as do many I am well aware) She is convinced hubs and I are still avid supporters because we voted for him 4 years ago,, not matter that our thoughts may have changed in many ways.. and we have not watched Fox news in 3 years.. LOL She is POSITIVE !! So when she starts trying to (Old news) bait us,, I just agree with her,, sometimes I over agree with her.. LOL She runs out of steam with no feedback.. Sometimes my hubs "winds her up" so she will see how silly she is being. Then she goes back to statements like "he makes fun of people ( yes he does) . But I have to say some of this CNN watching is now causing a reversal in her attitude. She was always pretty color blind, our family is a bit biracial, but she is amped up about the riots, the changing of history ( she is pretty well educated and hates to see history destroyed) and more. So who knows,, lately I have heard some doozies from her.
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PeakShale Aug 2020
Good to see someone else bringing up the context of actual viewpoints. The original question is too generic, as are many of the replies. No doubt they're trying to respect the limits of the forum, but this question begs an exception, especially if it involves people excusing massive damage in riots across America.

Lately, the Left favors what many consider deeply wrong police-bashing while ignoring that police are compelled to go where crime occurs. They naturally make more arrests in bad neighborhoods, so the odds of bad arrests mathematically increase in those places. A charge of "murder" presumes intent, and cops have been generically judged without a jury over a cherry-picked case that doesn't represent most arrests. The blanket assumption of racism is not born out in studies, e.g. Roland Fryer. Terrible rioting is being driven by that assumption, so moral people can't just sit back and watch.

The elderly tend to be more conservative, so I'll guess which side they're on in this case. If that's mistaken, the OP should clarify things.

My mom is also anti-Trump (I also don't respect him) but can't convince her that crime itself is the root of blacks' police woes. I don't live near her so it mainly comes up in visits. The original poster could try just getting into it ("if you can't get out of it...") if facts are on their side. They could at least tell us which side they're on, but this forum won't take too much of that. If the elders have a view in defiance of strong evidence, e.g. AGW-denial, others' advice to minimize conversations is wise.
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I can totally understand how stressful this is, especially if you are out somewhere and it’s in public. I had relatives who were like this, taking offence where none was intended, picking fights and arguments about theoretical situations, not to mention questionable politics and really awful racism. I dealt with this in different ways: in the house, I would say “ look, we have differing views on this so let’s just agree to disagree “. I would then not be drawn in on the subject any more, despite sulking, shouting and other childish behaviour. As far as going out with them anywhere, after a few times of me having to apologise to waiters or other diners for their bad behaviour (and the extreme stress that goes with this) I just wouldn’t go out with them any more. We ate at home if they ever visited. I would leave the room if they started acting up, sometimes going off to do something else in the house, maybe the odd bit of housework or something, just to get away from the situation. I would say that they didn’t feel they’d had a successful visit unless they’d started a massive argument. I put up with this for years and gradually laid down more and more boundaries to the point that I only saw them once a year so that we could contain this behaviour and really limit it. I accepted that they would never change nor see that there was anything wrong with their behaviour either. If they are living with you it is even more difficult for you, but if you just refuse to engage, walk out of the room or leave the house, they will end up shouting to nobody. You won’t change their behaviour overnight, or ever, maybe, but you don’t have to be a target for it. Also, you could try a “cause and effect” argument: if you do this, the consequence is ....... and then carry out the consequence each time this rule is broken. This could be not eating together, not going out together, even not being in the same room together, etc. Just remember that you do not have to be a target for this and can “walk away” when the shouting starts.
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Apparently there have been no consequences for stirring the pot, so why should your parent stop? He (I assume it's your father) enjoys the attention.

You cannot stop him from instigating turmoil but you can create consequences to modify his behavior. When he starts a fight, say, "Dad, we talked about this." Then stand up and leave.
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