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Dad’s physical health has shown much improvement (medically clear according to doctors). Mental health is okay. For example; months, days, year, time, etc (loss cause). Some days he may forget which way is the bedroom or bathroom and I can say go left or right and he follows along. Or if he is getting back in his transport chair but being nosey at the same time, I can say stop being nosey before you miss the chair and he will refocus. However, I still have to help him when he first stands after setting for a while. He can still clean himself after using the restroom although I like to double-check, he can still bath himself after I get him set up. But meds I make sure he takes and cook, etc.


I have temporary guardianship. The hearing starts again in the middle of February. In the meantime, my family here is pushing for the nursing home or his home like yesterday. I believe my teens, especially our son, would not be so vocal/disrespectful about it if my husband wasn’t so vocal/disrespectful (but that’s another story). My sister who lives in his home claimed at the hearing she wanted him back at home with her but has yet to reach out to me and we are probably a month later. No phone call or text message. I’ve been in contact with her several times trying to get the roof repair done and keeping her informed when the contractor was coming out. Of course, only when something requires me to be in contact.


I’m like go ahead with trying to get him in a nursing home after his last checkup this week. But then the other side of me is saying see if you can have someone go in and check the condition of the home (my sister use to be a hoarder and I doubt that has changed). I doubt she has made his room available and doubt she would be willing to let me or someone of my choosing come in and makes changes without a fight.


If she is unwilling to call me now, 9 times out of 10 she would not be willing to communicate with me if I just go ahead and return dad to his home and have his Medicaid workers come in during the day and evening for a few hours (he currently gets 7 hours a day).


So my heart of heart says this will not work - me putting him back in his home for now while health is good. Remember, he can’t afford memory care without his home being sold and all hell would be unleashed if I tried. Sister has never worked or had her own home or even rented.


My concern is if I go ahead and put him in a nursing home (reluctantly) and she does the cry thing at the hearing as she is known to do to get people on her side, would the judge turn around and say why you put him in a nursing home without consulting with the others? Which I’ve been doing the entire time he has been in our home. Would the judge order me to remove dad from the nursing home? To me, this would be confusing. I feel, he will already be confused once I remove him from our home.


I know if I lose at the hearing (temporary guardian now), I can just walk away but can’t even picture what that looks like. Help me please with your thoughts.

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I'm sorry you're in this tangled situation. If you are a guardian (temp or permanent) to your father then he must be incapacitated to make decisions in his own best interests.

If so, please resettle him into a care facility. If I am understanding what you wrote about your husband, he doesn't want him to move in with you, correct? I agree with this. Your husband and family have priority over your father.

In a good facility he will have more social exposure and hopefully opportunities to be included in activities and events. He will be cared for. It won't be perfect, but then hardly any situation ever is. You will have peace of mind that he is being properly cared for and your husband/family won't be disrespected by being 2nd place.

Regarding selling the home: if he's on Medicaid he won't be forced to sell the home but rather a lien will be put on it that must be satisfied when it is eventually sold. I strongly suggest you consult with an elder law attorney or Medicaid Planner so you understand what the process is and to avoid inter-family transactions that may delay or disqualify him from Medicaid.

I've read on this forum that if the judge witnesses excessive family in-fighting over your father, the judge may decide to grant guardianship to a 3rd party guardian (not a family member). Is there any chance you all can go to a family mediator to work things out before going to the final hearing? As the temp guardian you are not obligated to appease others, just make the best decisions for your dad's sake.
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answry Jan 2022
Well, he agreed to give dad three months to get additional therapy. That worked out great to get him back up to par. He is at 90 according to home health team but can’t get 100 percent because of some dementia.

So I started communication with my sister to see about his home and then he was telling the nursing homes no he was not wanting to live there. So now three months has turned into six months. None of us ever agreed to long-term.

I know a bunch of disrespect happening in this family both in regards to dad and other issues that don’t involve dad. But I get what you're saying but I just cannot throw dad out on the street (can’t stay at my home and can’t go to his home without a fight) which is why I went for guardianship.

So if a nursing home is the only option left, then at least now I have papers to make it happen. However, it is still not an easy decision.

He is on Medicaid so I’ll try to consult with another attorney outside of the one I’m using for guardianship. I’ve also read that on the forum about excessive family in-fighting. But I can’t make my siblings change. I’ve been away from them for a year and yet still they like drama. I know how to talk about only what needs to be talked about but they can't without drama.
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Which would offer Dad the 'most suitable' accommodation?

I don't say 'best' or 'right' as these things are never going to be 100% best or right.

Your home is out as voted 2/3. So that leaves 2 choices: a group aged care facility (with staff) or his private home (run by someone who has a hoarding disorder)

1. Which offers him more safety, more security?
2. Which will meet his social & personal care needs better?
3. Which can better adapt - increase services/support as his needs increase?

More questions, sorry!
Q Dad's wishes:
Does he verbalize or show a strong wish to go home? Or does he seem content wherever he is?

IF he does, you may consider the method of *trial of least resistance*. Eg try home again before forced into placement.

So IF you did this. Said OK, let's give going home with sister another go... How could you measure if this is successful or not? What time-frame would be reasonable as a trial? How would you remove him & relocate to a facility if you need to?

Sometimes I really wish we could sit down for a cuppa ☕. Such big decisions must feel so heavy on your shoulders (((Hugs))).

What answers are bubbling up?

PS if I haven't rattled on too much.. I suspect there is a big dark seething elephant hiding somewhere (with Sister's name tattooed on)... Coz if you choose a facility for Dad, the roof over her head will be sold.. ie her house of cards collapses.

Is THAT something you want to discuss more?
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answry Jan 2022
1. Which offers him more safety, more security? Elsewhere
2. Which will meet his social & personal care needs better? Elsewhere.
3. Which can better adapt - increase services/support as his needs increase? Elsewhere

Q Dad's wishes:
Does he verbalize or show a strong wish to go home? Or does he seem content wherever he is? He still verbalizes daily about going home (but part of the reason for that is he says he needs to get back to his wife to keep her from being alone and worried. So then it's like, how will he take not seeing her. But then I started reading about sundowning here and said I wonder if he would still be saying the same thing. But at the same time, I know he knows where home is at times because we have to pass right by his turn when going to his primary and he always says turn around and get agitated saying we not listening to him. He is semi-content here but still vocalizes about home. However, at the other nursing home where he was for four months, he was always in panic mode. As if he was freighted. It was hard to watch. He was not settling.

How could you measure if this is successful or not? I remember how mom care went after I discontinued (I can measure that way) and with dad, it would be the same. I know how he looked when he was just under sister's care with all rights taken where he could not even give permission to the ambulance personnel when he was deathly ill. Communication would be another way for me - I think she would be too hateful in that aspect which made me think of having cameras installed. Then that would probably be mess.

What time-frame would be reasonable as a trial? If I tried this, I only would think 30-days but know it may require longer (90 days) but don't know if I'm willing to try longer than that which still makes it bad for dad.

How would you remove him & relocate to a facility if you need to? It would be a fight unless he went down again especially if in his home. I remember him telling the nursing home personnel, at my home, he was not going anywhere with them.

Yes, I would like to discuss that more. [PS if I haven't rattled on too much.. I suspect there is a big dark seething elephant hiding somewhere (with Sister's name tattooed on)... Coz if you choose a facility for Dad, the roof over her head will be sold.. ie her house of cards collapses.]

But I have to go and get him up again for breakfast! I'll check for responses or additional thoughts later. Like I said, trying to be brave and going ahead with another nursing home try is an option but what if he is like he was before, or what if the judge says to remove him. I don't know if a judge would do such a thing but who knows?
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Is the house safe? Are there repairs that need to be made to make it safe for dad now and as he declines?
Is your sister able to care for him safely? Does her hoarding pose a safety risk for dad? In an emergency can he safely and quickly get out of the house?
If it is safer for dad to enter Assisted Living where will your sister go? If she can not live in the house if it would be sold to help pay for dad’s care. Is this why she wants him to come home, that she may be homeless?
Always look ahead if possible and think safety as a priority
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answry Jan 2022
This is a 40 plus year-old home said to be bought when I was coming along. Repairs were needed long ago. A few years back when I was going in daily (full-time job) to caregive at their home, the plumbing went down. I went and applied for a low-income loan with Rural Development. Sister refused to turn over her social security statement to show her income so they refused to fund the loan. So dad did a makeshift. Sister blocked so many things that would have improved the home but now trying to get as many done as she can. The roof is only being repaired now because she went and took out a policy on the home the same month she put dad in the nursing home. The risk dad would have is being able to use his walker and/or transport chair (the clutter). And gut says don't count on her to inform you when dad needs something so I would have to count on his Medicaid workers if he returns home. For six months, she said she didn’t want dad back home. Then at the hearing, she shouted she wanted him home with her. Saying she needed time to get her own attorney. All the bills are far behind and the fear of being homeless is the only reason for the sudden change. At least that’s my thought on that as well.
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I don't know if adult protective services was involved in the events that led to assignment of temporary guardianship to you. If they were, their records of his condition might help, and they may recommend an attorney who can represent your dad's interests and help the court realize why he cannot safely return to his own house.
Sometimes it is is better to let the court appoint an attorney or experienced guardian for your dad's decision making. This person will be able to cut through some of the challenges in getting the situation sorted out, including financial and legal steps related to use of your dad's resources for his needs.
A small family care home might be a good fit. Sounds like having your dad stay with your family is not a good plan, and will. only add to the stress of everyone in your household.
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answry Jan 2022
Adult protective services were not involved that led to temporary guardianship. I only went for guardianship because my sister said she did not want dad back at the house, he was not coming back there (his home) and to put him back in a nursing home somewhere – 1’st reason. So then I started looking into nursing homes. Two different facilities sent their spokesperson out to interview him but then told me since he did not give consent and seemed to be doing pretty good, they nor I could force him – 2’nd reason. I tried the send to hospital route and they too said they had no medical reasons to send him to a nursing home and could not force him – 3’rd reason. I can’t find small care home in our area after learning about them on this website (they are miles and miles away). Having dad stay with us long-term is not a good idea. It has been a challenge these six months and having my husband constantly in my face about it makes it even more difficult.
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I’d see an elder law lawyer pronto and get advice about the best way to pay for appropriate placement. The house may need to be sold despite sister’s residency in it and the hell that would be unleashed. You need to know the legal status of everything.
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moved below for Geaton777
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I have so much sympathy for you, because you're dealing with not one, but two people who are impaired in one way or another. Look into the exempt home clause for Medicaid. That may be the only way of getting your dad into a nursing home without putting your sister out on the street. Once he passes, though, that house will need to be sold to pay Medicaid back, and she'll need another living arrangement. This is so tough.
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You are the temporary guardian. You express that you two cannot cooperate. Therefore it isn't worth thinking about. I think your own plan for placement is a good plan. I would go ahead with it, implement it; I see no sense wasting valuable time and strength on just churning the waters. You are wise to know that if you "lose" in February you can walk away knowing you have done what you can. I think you have had enough time to think on the pros and cons here and to know there will never be the perfect answer. Good luck. As to the answer of "Why did you put him in a nursing home?" Because that is the good, solid, knowledgeable, trained 24/7 care that he needs in my opinion. But if in your own opinion you believe my Sis would be the better guardian for him, doing it her way, I can tell you I might at this point be relieved to walk away knowing I did all I could, heart, soul and mind, to make him safe". Add a few "your honors" and a couple of "sirs" to that. And be ready either way. I would tell the judge also that were you guardian you would sell the home so your Dad could have better care in a memory care; that is your intention. So just be honest. Let the chips fall where they may. We have been following your journey for some time. You have done all you can.
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Thanks everyone for your input! Unfortunately, there's no perfect answer and no perfect solution. I can only hope that the one I've made and the facility of choice works for his good so that he can remain in decent health for however long God has it in his plans. The other question about court only came up because I know we have to go back.
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againx100 Jan 2022
That's right - there is no perfect. Just make the best decision you can and see how it works out.
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