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I petitioned the State to take guardianship of my father. Long backstory, feel free to read my other posts, but he has not been a father. This was my last effort to get him the help he needs.


A lady from The Department of Aging called me and tried to guilt me in to taking the guardianship role. She tried to make it so simple like all I need to do was find a nursing home for him and fill out paperwork yearly. I was firm with my answer of no. His sisters and other daughter want no part in this. He cut them out many years ago.


Now the proposed guardian/The Dept of Aging has filed an answer with the court that they think there are better alternatives than the state taking over. My attorney said this is not cause for concern. But do they really think we are going to this hearing, and they are going to convince me to take the role?


There is no way I am doing this. My life has been absolute hell since I involved myself with him again 3 months ago. I am to the point that I am not even talking to him because there is no comprehension on his end as to what I am saying. He has moderate cognitive decline and is paranoid delusional. It is getting worse by the day. He calls me 30-40 times a day, has accused his neighbor of raping him, his neighbor was issued a peace order against him, he’s been to the ER 10 times in 3 months for non-emergency and made up issues, he calls the cops everyday-10 times in the past 6 days regarding delusional stories, he has received a notice to vacate his apartment because he is harassing others, he has no health insurance, he gives my phone number to everyone he encounter (police, detectives, apartment manager, his neighbors, bill collectors), and the list goes on and on.

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You hire an attorney for a reason. Trust him/her. I myself do boring attorney work for an energy utility, so not fluent on this kind of thing, but if you hire an attorney then trust them.
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Windy, how is it going? Still hanging in?
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Windy2022 Dec 6, 2023
Hi Barb,
Thank you for asking, I really appreciate that. Our case is slow moving. Monday was the 20th day deadline that the show of cause responses had to be entered. So hopefully a hearing date will be set very soon. My attorney is reaching out to the court in the morning.
He has an eviction hearing in a week and a hearing for the 2nd degree assault next week as well.
He’s went to the ER 2x this past weekend for believing someone broke in his apartment and punched him in the neck and sexually assaulted him. They discharged him on his own both times.
I’ve called APS again.
I almost wish he would violate the peace order so that the police would take him and see how cognitively challenged and delusional he is and be able to take him to the ER to get him placed in psychiatric or something for now.
This is so frustrating.
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Windy22

Sorry to hear. Did you accept father out of pitting and no one wanted to assist him and know you are stuck. Have you spoken with his PCP, you know it takes two doctors to sign agreement form. Your attorney knows you petition the court not area for aging . They are go on d resources.
When you tell the Judge you just can't do it anymore they will sign a guardian of the courts. Don't fall back into that pattern.you have to. Pray on it God knows your heart . Yet honor your father and mother . You best be careful for your health and well being. This will pull you in and make you start to hate him. You have a life . Let him go . Respectfully
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Windy2022 Dec 6, 2023
Yes. I helped out of pity. He does not have health insurance. Never went to the Dr in the past. So there’s no PCP. Our state allows evaluations from 1 dr and 1 licensed clinical social worker for guardianship petition. I arranged those evaluations.
The Department of Aging for the State is who will become the guardian. They are the ones that answer for the state when the petition is filed.
He was not a father to me. He just used me when he needed something. I created a pattern of allowing this and only see as of recently how I was being used. I’m trying to end this cycle. But the pity is still there.
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Just read ur response to Theo. I think you needed to do what you are doing. Seems like the professionals we rely on for help did not do their jobs. There is no way that this man should have been let back on the streets. You do NOTHING now. Let the lawyer do his job. Can, when Dad calls work, he be told that you no longer work there and sorry we have no forwarding number.

I just can't imagine what you are going thru. I would, when I go to court, request that this man not be allowed a phone or access to one because he uses it to harass you at home and your place of business.
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Windy, I hope you saw Geaton's reply below--that those were exactly the same questions asked of her step-father's family members when they petitioned the court to allow the state to take guardianship.

So much of these proceedings are pro-forma--boxes that have to be checked.

Please take deep breaths, listen to your lawyer and understand that your "guilt" is misplaced.
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"can't block him from our business phone lines"

Windy, you might not be able to block him at work but phone companies have a blacklist of numbers that aren't allowed to connect to the system. If agreeable, your work can request your father's number be blacklisted so as not to receive his calls at all.

By personally blocking all contact, your work blocking calls, letting your attorney handle her part and continuing to stay strong on the no, hopefully you can be extracted from the stress of it all.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2, 2023
Trouble,

Great suggestion! The more the OP can distance herself from her dad, the better.

Let the attorney deal with it. That’s what they are getting paid to do.
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Stick to your plan. The State can not make you responsible for him. Ask the court to appoint a guardian ad litem to manage his affairs. You may have to get a new phone number and not allow him to call you. Maybe allow him to only have email access.
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Windy2022 Dec 1, 2023
Fortunately he can’t use a computer anymore. So no emails :)
I’ve thought about getting a new phone number. I’ve had this one for over 20 years and really don’t want to let it go.
But the other problem is he calls my office phone. I can’t change that # and can’t block him from our business phone lines. I have our office staff prepared when they see his number on caller id to answer as a different business and tell him he has the wrong # so he hopefully stops calling. But then he calls all hours of the night and gets our after hours answering service and they just take the message and send an email and text.
As I type this, I realize how insane all of this is. Just to go no contact with a 74 year old man.
I can’t imagine what people go through who are stalked by able bodied people.
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Windy, reading through your posts, I'm wondering if the lady from Social Services (the one asking about his favorite things) wasn't simply trying to get a sense of his preferences, and not trying to guilt you into anything.

I'm always kind of amazed, reading about folks admitting their loved ones to NHs, how they perceive Discharge folks trying to manipulate them.

My brothers and I never gave a second thought to the idea that demented mom, no matter how much loved, could be cared for by any of us in our homes or hers.
I don't know if was something we projected or what. But no one ever asked if we were taking her home.

Stand strong, kiddo
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Windy2022 Dec 1, 2023
Thanks Barb. I would like to think otherwise as well.
They just seemed like odd questions to ask when guardianship has not been appointed yet and there is a lot of time and opportunity for them to talk to me about those things.
I could think of a lot of other questions she could ask to prepare for taking him under their care. Like questions about his ADLs, his physical health, medications, dietary restrictions, allergies, medical history, etc.
The lady was very kind but absolutely had a job to do. After she got off the phone me she called my sister and his sisters to ask them the same things. And they are people listed in the petition as being completely estranged from him and not speaking for over a decade.
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HI Wendy, I'm a bit late to this post but I do have one thought I haven't seen here: in my experience and I AM NOT an attorney but if someone, anyone actually names you in a court document, if you don't show up or send your attorney to represent you then the petitioning party is awarded their request (motion.) IF they are simply harassing you then you have gotten good responses here. Change your number. Trust your lawyer. I have been in the situation of an abusive father that my family intervened in. I was fortunate that they did. I was angry that my dad was removed until someone on this forum told me I was suffering from "Parental Stockholm Syndrome". It was so 'freeing' from the guilt I felt for not continuing with his care. I am more relaxed now than I have been in the 9 years I cared for him. Guess I'm rambling. Stick to your "No". Listen to your lawyer IF this becomes a legal issue and find some peace and joy. Wendy, you will be OK. You will be OK. You will be OK.
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Windy2022 Dec 1, 2023
You are not rambling at all. It’s comforting to hear that other people have been in my situation (although I’m so sorry that you’ve had to go through this as well).
My therapy session just today made me realize that he has been emotionally abusing me my whole life by manipulation tactics to get what he wants. He has no regard for my life, my family, my feelings.
Just yesterday he had a friend of his call me because he told her that his apartment moved him outside and he had no where to go but a hotel. This was a complete lie all in attempt to get me to call him because he needed something and I have his number blocked and was not acknowledging his messages and calling him back.
It is a very hard thing to separate one’s self from abuse that’s been going on for almost 50 years from someone who’s role is supposed to be caretaker.
Glad you were able to separate yourself and have peace.
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I think what's going wrong here is YOU did the petitioning. State is supposed to be guardian of last resort when someone has no one else.  Your dad sounds like a crazy bugger and I see why you can't handle him! Normally it's authorities or an ER who can't find any relatives for someone brought in who's not in their right mind and they ask state to take guardianship and STATE petitions the court.  That's what's unusual in this case.

Hopefully the court will be persuaded. If not, your dad might just have to get himself in enough trouble so the authorities ask the state to petition themselves.
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Windy2022 Dec 1, 2023
Yes, I can see that. Back in September when I started the ball rolling with this, I was considering taking the role.
But as time went by, I realized this is too much for me and all of the “experts” were telling me that is was common to petition the state to take guardianship.
I now see that I should have just let his actions have their consequences and eventually he would have ended up as a ward of the state. I feel like that course would’ve taken a lot longer because so far, no one has done anything. Hospital sends him home, police won’t take him, APS hasn’t done anything, crisis intervention, etc
But it is what it is now. I’ve learned a lot. I have a different outlook on things compared to 3 months ago.
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Windy, I think your lawyer is correct. There are certain procedures that have to be met. No one can be made to care for another especially one who is mentally unstable. Only professionals can care for the mentally ill. The money he has, which really is not much, a guardian can use for his care.

If guardianship by the State is not given, then you wash your hands. You walk away. You stop answering the phone. You allow the pieces to fall where they may. You let the neighbors file complaints. Let him be put in jail. You don't answer the phone. Police come to your door, you tell them u have washed ur hands of Dad, they need to Baker Act him and shut the door.
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Windy2022 Dec 1, 2023
Exactly my plan. Thank you for the encouragement :)
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Duped, the OP has no power or standing to get or make her father do anything.


That's why the state needs to take guardianship. Many NHs will not admit patients who are being forced into care, which makes this scenario all the more difficult for the OP. If she accepts guardianship, she has ALL of the responsibility and NONE of the power or resources that the state does.

Windy, trust your lawyer. Do what she tells you and understand that this process of the state resisting may simply be pro forma.

Please don't torture yourself.
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Theo951 Dec 1, 2023
I agree, "pro forma" might explain it.
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Your father sounds like he has mental health issues and he has anger problems. Perhaps you should get him to see a psychiatrist for an evaluation and they can place him in a psychiatric center.
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I feel bad for you. He sounds like a big problem.
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Windy2022 Nov 30, 2023
It’s just gets worse by the day. His neighbor that he’s been having the issues with has now filed an assault charge against him.
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Could they be trying to say there's other alternatives because it costs taxpayer money if they do it?
Or maybe they're trying to get out of it because they think he's too much trouble?
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Windy2022 Nov 30, 2023
I’m not sure if they even know how much of a problem he is. We were pretty vague in the actual petition with the multitude of problems he’s created but instead relied on the Dr’s and SW’s reports.
I think they see he has 2 sisters and 2 daughters (1 being me that actually took the time and money to hire an attorney) and they think surely we must be able to care for him. He also has 52k in the bank, 17k owed to him for late SS filing and 2500 a month from SS now. I guess they think since he has some money, it should be easy for us to find him care.
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I don't think its so much that the OP can't or won't take care of him, its proving to the Judge that the man needs help and needs to be where he will get that help. To do that, the State must take over guardianship.
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Geaton777 Nov 30, 2023
Based on what the OP wrote in the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs, they are trying to guilt her into being the guardian rather than the county/state.
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What would happen if you don't attend the hearing but just have your attorney read a statement from you instead? I don't see why they think you should endure this when you've said no many times already. Don't go.
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AlvaDeer Nov 30, 2023
I think it is SUCH A GOOD IDEA to have the attorney read a statement, Geaton. I think the statement should say that the OP is not currently either "physically or mentally capable of giving care" and that there is no one else to do it.
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I've started and stopped this post 3 times. As a society, we are really good at using guilt as a weapon. Ironically, I hear a lot of people really talking a lot of crap in certain circles about how how entitled and self-focused the last couple of generations are, because they don't choose to maintain relationships with people they consider toxic - family in particular. But frankly I think this is where they really get it right.

Every generation thinks the one before and after does something wrong. But my girls' generation is definitely one that won't put up with being guilted and shamed for not being treated like crap and being made to feel guilty for something that they have no guilt in.

Social workers, hospitals, Dept. of Aging, Rehab facilities, they all have a duty of care. If they can transition that duty of care to someone else, they are no longer responsible. They are looking for someone else to shoulder that burden. And they will use all means available to them to get rid of that responsibility. Including making it seem much easier to take on that responsibility.

Oh, you just have to find him a nursing home and sign some paperwork - no problem. Sure, no problem. Except - until it's all legal, you can't even make him go. And the second you pick him up, he's your problem.

You do not need to shoulder this. You are well within your rights to walk away with NO guilt. Change your number or block his. This isn't your fight anymore. The state can take him on. They have the resources. And you find that you won't get the access to those resources if he falls in your lap no matter what they promise you. They will be slow to come and few and far between, and not enough to make the ends meet. This is too big of an undertaking.

I wish you the best of luck!
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AlvaDeer Nov 30, 2023
Guilt is so inappropriate to these situations.
The people being asked to step up and step in are not responsible for the problems.
They didn't cause them.
They can't fix them.
And it is inappropriate to feel guilt when you didn't do anything.
That's what GRIEF is for.
And you are so RIGHT that the guilt is being used as a weapons sometimes by social workers, sometimes by doctors and recent we saw it from the admin at a facility to family living out of town. I well understand that the state wants not to take this on. It's costly. They want family to take it on. But in many cases family cannot, and that is what the state system is for.
It's a real dilemma, as you point out blue-eyed.
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Windy2022: Do not involve yourself any longer.
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The state can Take Over and Place him in a NH for his Own Protection . Sad story . Feel better . It will get Better .
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Windy,

Times of uncertainty are so stressful. I am hoping that this situation is resolved soon so that you can return to your life without worrying about your father’s behavior.
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IMO, the state cannot force you into being a guardian. They can only tell the court that they want you to have guardianship. If you decline to the court, there is nothing the state can say to force you to be his ward. One caveat is if you have any previous legal paperwork that says IF NEEDED, you've previously agreed to be his guardian. Then it would be completely up to the court.

That said, the state can say they don't want him either and if they refuse to take him, either the judge declares them guardian OR he remains on his own -- with emphasis that he remains on his own. In other words, you have to be completely estranged from him and his issues, even if that means he is homeless, incapacitated and a safety problem to others. Absolutely DO NOT take him into your home!!! If you continue to try and help, THAT might become an acknowledgement of your willingness to be his guardian. You should ask your attorney.

To be blunt, the problem (father) will painfully resolve itself. Maybe the police will get tired of him calling, his neighbor will turn him in, he'll end up on the street in a bad situation, etc., etc., and he will then get admitted to a mental health facility. Any number of things can happen, it just won't involve you! Harden your heart to this and heed your attorney.

Best of luck.
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AlvaDeer Nov 23, 2023
No, they aren't going to be able to FORCE this, but they are, it is seeming to me from what Windy writes us, knowing they can MANIPULATE her into it. There's the rub.
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Yeah. Right. Their "better option" is YOU.
You need to stop that one in its tracks.

Quite honestly I am uncertain why you have an attorney and why you are participating in this?
You don't need to.
As you might guess, when there is no one else the State DOES take over, knowing there aren't other options.
They are seeing your participation here as an option. And you are paying for this?
Normally, when people cannot deal with an elder, as is the case here, they report to APS and APS starts the ball rolling for guardianship. Once that happens, family (this will be the case for you) have NO INPUT as to sale of things, expenditures, placement locations and et al. They are either absent or step away.

You say you fear they will "try" to get you to do this.
Of course they will.
You simply say that you physically and mentally are unable to do so, and that you will not do so.
You do not owe details. This is not a legal obligation. They are requesting you do so and will make any promises under the sun.

This is easy windy. Just say "no". Full stop. End of sentence.
Wishing you a good Thanksgiving.
Hope you will continue to update us on this journey. Look forward to seeing this is done and you are free.
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Windy2022 Nov 23, 2023
No one will intervene. This has been the most frustrating thing I have ever experienced. APS has been called - nothing. Crisis intervention when he was have a horrible mental episode - nothing. The police visit several times a week. He’s been to the ER via ambulance 10 times completely out his mind and they discharge him on his own. I got involved because I felt bad. Big mistake!! This has been more than I can handle. The attorney was not an unreasonable cost to me for what I thought would give me some peace of mind to stop him showing up in horrible mental states to my office when he was driving, people calling my business, him calling my business, calling me, putting me as a contact like I am a personal care giver.
I felt bad but also felt like I was being harassed. I thought getting him through the system quickly with the help of an attorney would ease things.
I have now resorted to leaving my voicemail full and blocking him as he calls constantly and going no contact. My husband and a friend will be calling APS again to try to get them to intervene sooner. Maybe if they receive multiple calls, they will do something.
I feel like a hostage
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You have a lawyer, let him do his job. First guardianship is expensive. So u can say u can't afford it. Second, I think there is quite a lot of background with Dad that he is not capable of caring for himself. Do not get talked into this. Its not all cut and dry. I had a friend request that her guardianship, for a challenged cousin, be revoked because she was caring for a husband with ALZ and she was approaching 80. The cousin was 50. And its not just a little paperwork. You have to prove how his money has been spent and keep check on him so you can say he is seeing a doctor and that you have visited and seen he is well cared for.

You may be subpoenaed to court. I think you or your lawyer will need to be there so the judge can be told by u or ur lawyer that you do not want guardianship. Actually, you want nothing to do with this man so the State will need to take over his care. Like said, this is just how the SW has to proceed to get the Judge to appoint a State guardian. IMO, a Judge can't rule you have to be guardian if you don't want it.

When a collector calls, tell them you are not responsible for your Dads debts. That they are not to call you again and if they do, you will report them to the Federal Trade Commission. Tell the cops the same thing, you are not responsible for Dad and they need to Baker Act him. Do not pick up the phone unless its someone you know. So hope u have caller ID. Maybe your lawyer can write up a letter stating that you are in no way responsible for Dad physically or financially. Then you send it you everyone who calls you. Once he is in a home, the cop calls and neighbor calls should stop. The collectors, give him Dads new address and phone# of the NH. Then tell them not to call you again. Best thing, don't pick up the call. I do not pick up #s I do not know. If important, they can go to VM. Most of the time they hang when VM kicks in. If a collector, u just don't return the call.
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Hi Windy,
My limited experience of dealing with the “system” is that there is a formula, boxes to check, so to speak, before your local people are cleared to go forward with a permanent solution.
States and even counties have their rules which may differ. The bottom line the person you describe needs to be where they can be treated for their illness.

Your own lawyer is assuring you. I’m sorry you are dealing with this.
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Windy, this may simply be pro forma; just standard procedure. No worries.
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Windy, listen to your lawyer.

Happy Thanksgiving 🦃!
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Windy2022 Nov 23, 2023
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well!
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Again, no good deed goes unpunished. Stick to your guns, You are not going to be the answer in this case. You do not have to be the answer, and your health cannot withstand it.
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Windy,

You tried to help your dad out and through no fault of your own it wasn’t possible.

I applaud you for recognizing that your dad is difficult to handle.

You’re very wise to tell the woman from Dept. of Aging, “No!” She is trying to coerce you into something that isn’t feasible.

After all you have been through, you have every right to stand firm in your decision.

Wishing you peace through this difficult time in your life.
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