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My father will be 90 in June. He has a host of health issues but still lives in his huge house and has a part-time caregiver, then just me, his only child, helping take care of him. He is a widow. I have been POA for 7 years and have been handling all his finances during that time because he had a stroke 7 years ago and just cannot do it. Even pre-stroke, my dad was terrible with money, hence the extensive credit card debt. Add to that he fell for a Publisher's Clearing House scam last spring, and charged up $10K to one of his credit cards, and the cc company refuses to forgive it even after I sent letters with proof of fraud, my lawyer friend called and I called, they won't budge because he technically approved the charges himself even though he was brainwashed into doing it by the scammer. It was a terrible situation that about pushed me over the edge last year with him, I was so angry because he refused to believe me and really thought he was going to win millions by spending money buying these scammers debit cards and phones. It was unbelievable. We finally got Verizon to forgive those debt but not the cc company. So in addition to this $10k he also still has another $4-5K on several other old credit cards, so we're looking at about $15k total in credit card debt. I've been making minimum payments for years but we are at the point now where he's outliving his money and I need to stop paying them so we can pay house taxes, his medicines, and medical bills, as well as things on the house that have to get fixed like heating and plumbing issues.


My dad only gets SS income. He also gets a VA benefit, that we use almost solely to pay the caregiver. His huge house is in a trust in my name and has been for 7 years. He owns a car and still drives very sparingly but that's probably not going to be much longer for him. The car is not worth much. No other assets at all.


So if I just stop paying his credit card bills, what will happen? They'll start harassing him with calls and letter? They can't touch his SS and VA income right? They can't touch the house because it's in a trust right? I just don't see another way of paying the necessities and still pay CC bills. We need that extra money to pay his house tax. He had some income in a trust that now is all gone that we used previously to pay these taxes.


I am just worried about what they can do if I stop paying all these cc bills. I don't want them to be able to get the house or come after me. It's also really stressing him out, which isn't good for his health, then he stresses me out with zany ideas to get money and it makes me angry and lose patience with him, which just causes unnecessary stress for both of us.


Thanks for any advice.

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Well.

You can stop paying the minimum amounts and force the credit company to take him to court. You can take out court orders preventing harassment, so they won't be able to contact him directly (or on their head be it). So it could be done.

On the other hand. Your father lives in a huge expensive house, and his total debt is not more than $20K, and it seems that your lawyer friend hasn't suggested it might be possible to get the debt thrown out in court... and in any case your father needs the money for care.

Does your POA allow you to sell the house and move him into residential care?

Meanwhile, stop talking to him about bills and money (unless it's to tell him to put down the phone on callers). He's coming up with his infuriating get rich quick schemes to solve the problem by magic, just like that. Change the subject.
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If an elderly person was abused and scammed screw the credit card company . You Can claim Bankruptcy . Speak with a elder attorney . I don't think there is much they can do especially since your Dad is old .
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You need to consult an attorney that specialized in Eldercare law. Not a friend who is a lawyer, but an attorney who specializes in this area of the law.

The Home: Placing the home into a Trust doesn't protect it from creditors. Have the attorney review the Trust document and advise you on your options. Ask if the home can be transferred to your name to protect the asset. Then you could try taking a reverse mortgage or selling it to pay his debt.

The Bank Accounts: Cut off dear old Dad immediately. Is your name on his bank accounts? If so, close the accounts and transfer the funds to a new account that only you have access to so that you can keep paying his bills. It may sound harsh but these scammers are committing elder abuse and there’s no stopping them because there are no legal consequences when your Dad gives them permission. My mom put herself in a similar situation with a much more dire financial consequence and I could only salvage a small percentage of her funds. Heartbreaking.

The Credit Cards: Take away Dad’s credit cards NOW but don’t close the accounts until you’ve spoken to a lawyer. You could provide Dad with a prepaid VISA with a few bucks on it so that he can buy groceries, etc., and maintain some independence. If he starts abusing the card, he’s only lost a few bucks. Once you close his credit cards, creditors will demand payment and could potentially place a lien on the home – regardless of the Trust. Debt consolidation may be something for you to look into to help keep payments low.
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babziellia Feb 2022
In Texas, they have something called a lady bird deed.

I also had a friend whose mom put her house and property in his name. Govt tried to get it, but in the end, they couldn't.

An attorney specializing in this area of law should advise you.
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Get an elder attorney immediately. There can be a variety of complications if debts are written off or no payment is made.. If a portion of the debt is forgiven, a 1099 can issued for the forgiven portion and taxes collected on this miscellaneous income, and don't count on the creditor not placing a lien on the house. My cousin defaulted on a number of credit cards. When her mother died, several of the creditors placed liens on the house she inherited, and she was forced to sell. She only netted a few thousand dollars on a $130,000 sale. She should have filed bankruptcy as recommended by the attorney, but she thought she could get by with just having write offs and debt forgiveness.
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Llamalover47 Feb 2022
Becky: Good point on the IRS form 1099.
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Cdriver: You should retain an elder law attorney posthaste.
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I'm sorry to hear about your father's money problems. Please stop paying his credit cards and consult with an attorney about what to do, if not done earlier.
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Ethically, best to cancel the card(s) and put this bill on auto-pay where his money is deposited. The "Greatest Generation" weren't deadbeats.

Also, if you can get a diagnosis letter from his doctor, you can request that his credit cards be canceled (if they are sticklers about who owns the account).
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DeckApe Feb 2022
Normally I’d agree. The “Greatest Generation” were not dead beats. HOWEVER it is these scammers and fraudsters taking advantage of these seniors’ mental decline. The scammers are manipulating the system to enrich themselves. The other part of the system (banks, credit cards) do jack shit and hide behind “protecting the seniors” BS until the money runs out - then they stop accommodating the scammers because their bottom line would take the hit.

The scammers and their apologizers are trash. No one should feel a duty to protect those leaches. Hundreds of dollars a month for powdered dandelion pills that cure everything, insurance policies that will never pay. Screw them. Besides, they only write off the non-paid debt on the tax payer’s back.

No one was interested in stopping the scammers - protect the seniors! But I pointed out there would be no assets (house), no insurance, no anything at all to put a lean on. Then suddenly they all wanted to close their accounts.
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A bit of a mess here. Dad is lucky he has you. I would stop paying the credit cards and find a certified eldercare attorney - try looking for one at: https://nelf.org/.; they have more of an in depth knowledge of the workings of trust and credit card companies than an attorney who doesn't specialize in this field. They will run you through the pros and cons - whatever they may be- of continuing to pay the current credit card bills as well guide you about as guide you about the status of the house going forward. Get ideas from the attorney about how to handle Dad and his checkbook and credit cards to limit his exposure to future scam artist. Sounds like you and Dad live in separate houses.............. that's good .... keep it that way. Also sounds like Dad is pretty happy with his current living environment. As long as you can afford it and he is comfortable, I'm going to swim upstream for a change and say you should maintain the status quo. Check with the attornery and a good CPA to see how long his finances will last, what kind of facility you could get him into when and if he ever needs it and what the costs will be. Just as an aside, know that they are doing yet another study that appears to be comfirming that care is slightly better in non for profit facilities.
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Cdriver Feb 2022
Thank you for your thoughtful response. Some things have happened since I posted and I most definitely need to get with an elder care attorney now as now my father's meddling cousin is trying to talk my dad into taking the house out of the trust and I am livid. My dad is clearly having some cognitive decline as he is being easily swayed by this cousin not to mention the scam. I am honestly just so exhausted after doing this on my own for 7 years and am at my whits end with it all.
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This man is totally unrealistic and has dementia. First and foremost go to an eldercare attorney for professional advice at once on how to take over his affairs. Second of all, IMMEDIATELY CANCEL EVERY SINGLE CREDIT CARD IN WRITING and remove anything from him that would allow him to spend foolish money no matter how he rants. I do not know the laws but knowing your options should bring you some peace. I think the house should be sold (check attorney first) and put him into a facility. Anything else, you will never have peace and do NOT bring him home.
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My personal experience fo what it is worth:
My mother passed away in 2020 without ever puting my name on the deed to her house even though I lived with her and cared for both her and her house since my father died way back in 1982. We shared household expenses. She did suffer from paranoia and did not trust lawyers or pretty much anyone for that matter. She was always going to do it but then always said "I have time yet" until she suddenly didn't. I was named executor in her will.
She also died with rather huge credit card debt. As executor I had to sell our home (her house) in order to afford a probate lawyer, pay all the costs of probating her will, pay inheritance taxes, pay all the fees and taxes, realtor commisions included in the selling of her house. Probate has taken over a year to complete. I got to inherit the remainder of her estate. The only real thing of value was her house which sold for $145,000. After everything else was deducted, I was left with only $80,000. So basicalt settling her state with debt cost $65,000. I bought a bungalow for myself and my dog. I never tried to force her to see a lawyer to get things in order before she died. I figured her life her way. I never realized I would have to leave our home to settle her debts after she passed. I was unaware of her huge credit card debt. Had I known about that I certainly would have done somthing to pay it down and protect the house from creditors before she died. As for the credit card debt, I was able to negotiate them down but not as much as I had hoped. But they will negotiate.
I suggest that you see a lawyer. If your father has a will it will most likely state that all debts should be paid. You in that case may have no choice but to pay them off when the will goes through probate if their are enough assets to cover the debts. CC Debts are paid off last in the probate process. I do not know about a house being held in a trust however, how that may affect payment of his cc debt. Your best bet a consult with a lawyer. Then you will know for sure how to proceed.
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Do yourself a huge favor, go to an attorney and get some answers from a professional, especially regarding the house. Count the fee as a cost of your inheritance in your mind …
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While not a solution to your problem, you might try some of this to help prevent future fraud debt:

I put credit locks on my dad's three credit reports. This was to stop him from applying for new credit cards.

I canceled his existing credit cards to stop fraud charges.

I opened a Visa debit card with Chime. This was his new "credit card" he could go to the store with. I kept only a hundred on that debit card. Scammers could only take what was in that card.

I closed his checking account. He would give that checking/routing numbers out to scammers.

I opened a new checking account for him to receive SS payments and pay bills. I never gave him that information.

It was helpful that my dad was in mental decline. He couldn't figure out what I was doing so was unable to stop me.
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Cdriver Feb 2022
Grest tips. Thank you.
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See an elder law attorney to advise on filing bankruptcy. close his credit card accounts. Go a step further by freezing your Dad's credit. This is free through all 3 credit agencies. No new cards can be applied for, no loans of any sort can be applied for, he cannot use the cards without removing the freeze (temporarily or indefinitely) on-line (but you can), and no one can run his credit in order to create additional damage.
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You need POA and you pay bills and handle finances. Take him to neurologist for letter saying he can't take care of himself. If he ever runs out of money they will check the last 5 to 7 years. Keep receipts for everything. If he lives with you or you are caregiver see an elder lawyer to have thing's legal.
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Cdriver Feb 2022
I stated I'm already POA and pay all his bills and handle all finances. He had so many credit cards there was one I didn't know was still open that he was able to use for the scammers. It has since been closed and now all he has is his debit card and I keep very little money in his checking account, only enough for groceries and medications and a few incidentals.
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Get a lawyer and start legal proceedings to stop the charges for the fraud.

Sell his car and consider selling the huge house for someplace smaller for both of you and the caregiver. Use the proceeds to pay off the debts. If you still want the house, have him sell it to you for a nominal fee - check with the lawyer on this.

When he dies, pay off whatever debts he owes from whatever assets he has. The huge house counts as one of his assets.
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Cdriver Feb 2022
No i won't live with him ever. It's his house or AL or SN. I have my own home and family, I'm not taking that on. He refuses to sell and wants to stay there until he can't. I can't force him to.
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Hi CDriver, I just went through the exact same thing so I understand your frustration.

First, DON'T pay anything else. If the collectors see that there is someone taking control of the debt, they could possibly take your bank information and go into your account and take the money. That is what happen to me with a credit card. I paid a small amount one month and once the collector got note of the bank account routing and account number, they took what my dad owed out of my account and left me nothing. So don't pay anything else. This way they won't KNOW who else is there to go after.

What you might also want to do so to prevent any further damage is to create a LifeLock account so if he tries to buy anything or open another line of credit, you will get a message that someone is trying to use his information. Then you can block it before it becomes out of control. Opening a LifeLock account might cost you a few bucks a month but it's worth the piece of mind.

Good luck. I hope that helps you a little. Stay strong, you WILL get through this.
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Cdriver Feb 2022
Thank you. Lifelock is a good suggestion.
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Stop paying. They will write it off and ruin his credit…so what. He doesn’t need more credit anyway. If the house is no longer in his name, they can’t even put a judgement on it.
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https://www.nfcc.org/resources/blog/elderly-mom-destitute-with-credit-card-debt-2/
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You really do have some problems1 first of all, you need to cancel the credit cards so that they are unusable: this will stop him from charging. Next, you might want to think about filing for bankruptcy . or like you said, just stop paying the bills. They can't get anything, cause he has nothing now.

You got problems! but just trust God....
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Cdriver Feb 2022
All cc were already canceled except the one he had hidden from me that the scammers got to. I didn't know he still had it open. I've since closed it and he no longer has an cc just a debit card with very low amounts in his account for necessities.
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This is what I did 4 years ago. Acting as my mom: I transferred all the mail to another address. I cancelled all the credit cards by closing them. I created a email account in my mom’s name and I handle it. I also paid only 5 dollars towards each bill with a note that I cannot pay more. (This is on behalf of my mom). I also referred each person to her daughter- me. I, as her daughter, took each of the calls and also let them know of the medical and mental issue of my mom as her DPOA and that this is the best that she can do at this time. There were many calls at least monthly….ignoring them is not good. Just be consistent on the message. This is the best that can be done and 5.00 a month being paid is in good faith. I am not ignoring the bill. After 6 or so months of me rejecting payment plans and other offers, I was offered a payoff by several. Because it was financially feasible, I was able to do the pay off on some of the accounts, the others are still being paid 5 dollars a month. They were unwilling to negotiate. The good news is that my mom can now live within her means. Btw, changing the phone number is a good idea too. By changing her phone number, I was able to cut down on the phone calls from scammers. I got mom a Mint Mobile number and the plan that is 15 dollars a month. She does not get calls anymore and I am relieved. Because my mom did pay her bills in the past, I was able to clearly state to the collections people that she is not a malingerer but she is unable to handle this part of her life as she has aged.
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Myownlife Feb 2022
I know you did your best, but the advice to people in this situation is to NOT continue paying anything, not even the $5. When it is turned to collections, you write a letter to the company to tell them to stop contact. By law they have to stop. After that, you keep track of each time they contact you, if they do. Then you can file a "complaint" I think it is, and collect I believe $500 for each time you are contacted.
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Stop paying. If they turn it over to collections, by law they have to stop calling if you ask them to. Keep track of every call after that request. Do not talk to them in any other way, and don't pay one more dime. That starts the clock again on the statute of limitations. They would have run out by now had you never paid any of it.

By paying, you've affirmed those debts. That was a mistake, but just stop paying. No one's going to steal his home, but it'd be wise to consult an elder care attorney to figure out whether he should declare bankruptcy and if that would affect his ability to get Medicaid.

The good thing is that he's not going to be applying for credit or loans anymore, so if his credit is destroyed it hardly matters.
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Cdriver Feb 2022
Thank you. I wish I'd never paid them but I was trying to do what was right when he still had the funds. Now he doesn't so we're in a different situation.
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I am so sorry. What a mess. First question is are you financial POA and signing all checks as his name, you as POA. Because if you are signing YOUR name you are assuming his debt under some rulings.
I think that you need the advice now on your father's dime for an Elder Law Attorney. Not paying your Dad's debt is one thing. They cannot, as you say, attach his SS. I don't know about VA benefits. But they CAN put a lien on his home if I am right, even if it is a part of a Trust. This is a question for the Elder Law Attorney.
As to Dad's credit being RUINED that is a BENEFIT in all this. His card should have long ago been canceled by you if you are his POA and he is incompetent.
The next question is "IS he incompetent" because you cannot make decisions for Dad if he isn't.
So see that Elder Law Attorney right now. He or she can answer questions and explain your DUTIES and your RIGHTS for Dad.
Good luck.
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Lovemom1941 Feb 2022
VA wouldn’t even help me with unpaid child support even though they were giving my ex dependent care benefits for children that lived with me, they won’t give them to the CC company.
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If Dad had no assets, the answer would probably be to invite bankruptcy from the creditor/s. Before you do that, you need to be clear about the situation of the house. Depending on when and why it was ‘put into a trust in your name’, it may be subject to the debts. Transactions to avoid debts can sometimes be voided, though seven years is a long look-back period.

You say ‘WE finally got Verizon to forgive those debts’, which suggests to me that someone else was involved, probably a lawyer. Dad surely couldn’t have been much help. You are almost certainly going to need legal help with this.

You say that it’s a huge house, so it’s probably too big for you. It should be worth considering selling it, and reaching a compromise with his creditors. There is no reason why Dad should walk away scot free while the creditors get nothing. Probably not too many reasons why you should inherit scot free if you didn’t use your POA appropriately. Be prepared for lots of questions about that.

This is not the place to get bullet-proof answers to your legal questions. You should not rely on "A trust does not protect the house from creditors" or "It would take a long time for them to put a lien on the house". See a lawyer.
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Myownlife Feb 2022
You should not be shaming the OP with a statement that Dad would be walking away scot free. That is not for you to judge.
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I would quit paying. If your name isn't on them, they can't come after you. It would take a long time for them to put a lien on the house. I would quit paying them. As long as you are paying them, it appears that you can pay them. Once he's fallen into arrears, the attorney's letter will get a little father. If not, it will take a while for them to get around to him....then try to settle.
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sp19690 Jan 2022
Yes after a certain time of no payment they will offer a settlement. But if you dont have the money to settle it's moot anyway.
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A trust does not protect the house from creditors. While you can stop paying the interest on the credit cards will just keep accurring and those debts will have to be settled when he dies with the house being sold since it is his only asset to pay the debt.

Unless you want to pay that debt for him in order to keep the house. If he is leaving it to you in his will. Which begs another question is the house paid off.

It sounds like he is going to keep racking up debt unless you can do something to stop it. You could try and get him to give you a financial poa. Get him to give over his credit cards to you. But I find most old people are really foolish and gullible and prideful and will not let their kids help them. They would rather give all their money to scammers then get help. It's a shame.

As it stands do not pay your dad's debt or credit card payments out of your own pocket.
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Cdriver Feb 2022
I am financial POA already. His home is paid off. He used a cc i didn't know he still had open. Both he and my mom had strokes within 2 weeks of each other and I'm an only child, so at the time I was thrown into handling all their finances in addition to their Healthcare. By myself. I did the best I could, so this one cc fell thru the cracks but 7 years ago my dad's cognitive decline had not started.
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